Boy this place is really dead... how depressing [&:][:(]
A few people doing AAR's aside there is nothing but the odd post about bugs and the odd question or two (unless you count unrelated board game threads).
Last few days here its been almost like it was pre-launch.
What a real shame.
Sad, sad, sad.......
Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets
Sad, sad, sad.......
Now Maitland, now's your time!
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
I tune in pretty regularly... should probably post some more.
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
To be clear CanInf it was not a comment that anyone should do anything (unless they want to) - just sad that this place was, for a short time at least post-launch, really buzzing with requests for help, tips on play etc etc i.e. good stuff.
But gradually people have deserted the game, and the forum begins to die - as has happened with other games I know of course. But this game deserved so much better.
But gradually people have deserted the game, and the forum begins to die - as has happened with other games I know of course. But this game deserved so much better.
Now Maitland, now's your time!
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
Well, the optimistic explanation might be people are getting on with playing and enjoying this "unplayable" game and don't feel the need to post. The disgruntled are always the most vociferous.
The depressing alternative is, following the initial flurry of interest, many, swayed by the malcontents and discounting the evidence from the AAR's, have moved on to other games.
I hope it's the former and, if so, come on, let's not let this great game wither from neglect.
The depressing alternative is, following the initial flurry of interest, many, swayed by the malcontents and discounting the evidence from the AAR's, have moved on to other games.
I hope it's the former and, if so, come on, let's not let this great game wither from neglect.
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
Sadly not. The busy forums are always buoyed by the presence of newbies to a game asking loads of questions, which in turn often sparks supplementary comment and threads. I can't think of too many newbs here in the last few months...
Ho hum....
Ho hum....
Now Maitland, now's your time!
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
Depressingly, you are probably right.
It begs the question as to whether the "this game is unplayable" chorus is what puts potential players off the purchase. If so, the only real counter is a lively AAR forum showing the game being played and enjoyed.
I wish there was more from the multi-player Teamviewer perspective as, at one point, there were a few posters on the subject. Other than that, Orm and yourself pioneered a fruitful way forward, which I am enjoying, and hope more will follow and post their stories.
It begs the question as to whether the "this game is unplayable" chorus is what puts potential players off the purchase. If so, the only real counter is a lively AAR forum showing the game being played and enjoyed.
I wish there was more from the multi-player Teamviewer perspective as, at one point, there were a few posters on the subject. Other than that, Orm and yourself pioneered a fruitful way forward, which I am enjoying, and hope more will follow and post their stories.
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CrusssDaddy
- Posts: 330
- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:05 am
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
ORIGINAL: warspite1
But this game deserved so much better.
This game deserved exactly what it has earned and received, but the effort to create a computer adaptation of WiF deserved much better.
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
ORIGINAL: AllenK
It begs the question as to whether the "this game is unplayable" chorus is what puts potential players off the purchase. If so, the only real counter is a lively AAR forum showing the game being played and enjoyed.
Yea, I think that you hit the nail right on the head. It's the trolls, working hard to turn people away.
"I’m not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I’ve seen what it can do to skyscrapers." -William H. Gascoyne
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
ORIGINAL: Ubercat
ORIGINAL: AllenK
It begs the question as to whether the "this game is unplayable" chorus is what puts potential players off the purchase. If so, the only real counter is a lively AAR forum showing the game being played and enjoyed.
Yea, I think that you hit the nail right on the head. It's the trolls, working hard to turn people away.
No it is not the trolls [what is a troll] warspite is right the forums are dead, if you are happy with a game that has no netplay no AI and no Pbem then more power to you, no one tried harder than warspite and myself to bring this game to the computer, but the truth is the truth no one but a very few are very interested anymore plain and simple.
Bo
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
warspite1ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy
ORIGINAL: warspite1
But this game deserved so much better.
This game deserved exactly what it has earned and received, but the effort to create a computer adaptation of WiF deserved much better.
You are wrong as usual [8|]
1. The game - WIF - is brilliant - the best wargame ever. THE GAME deserved better.
2. The effort to create a computer adaptation has gone awry (and you and I both have differing views on why that is and what could have been done differently given the realities and the economics of the situation) but regardless of the actual reason, the result is that the adaptation to a computer version has probably got what it asked for given those limitations.
Now Maitland, now's your time!
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
ORIGINAL: warspite1
But this game deserved so much better.
Which game deserved so much better, the board game or this computer game?
I don't think the computer game deserved any better; how long have we waited for the Europe-only scenarios? Net Play? An AI? I finally gave up when I realized that even if/when these things are delivered, I really don't care for the air/land/sea impulse mechanism, which is very counter-intuitive for my little pea brain.
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
warspite1ORIGINAL: 76mm
ORIGINAL: warspite1
But this game deserved so much better.
Which game deserved so much better, the board game or this computer game?
The board game WIF, the game upon which MWIF is based. The best strategic game - no, the best wargame ever.
I don't think the computer game deserved any better; how long have we waited for the Europe-only scenarios? Net Play? An AI?
As for how long things have taken, one programmer, state of the game upon release etc etc etc. Well that old chestnut can continue to be debated but economic facts are what they are. Matrix, ADG, Steve, the beta testers, the general public - NO ONE WANTED THIS TO FAIL. May be it was just too big a project given the economic facts of life?
I really don't care for the air/land/sea impulse mechanism, which is very counter-intuitive for my little pea brain.
Well fair enough, its not for everyone, and if you don't like the impulse mechanism then its probably not the game for you.
Now Maitland, now's your time!
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
Wargaming has always been a small niche since the last years, and this is not exactly a game a newbye to warming would approach.
More probably, a Panzer Korps for example.
I understand well the complaints of others - and to play alone is nothing I really want (tbh neither vs the AI, as it fails at these games).
Just I believe there is a shortage of things to ask at some given point. I buy a game to play, not to post about it on the forums, unless I've a necessity to actually post something.
I still check the forums daily for a new patch, some news about optional rules implemented, etc.
More probably, a Panzer Korps for example.
I understand well the complaints of others - and to play alone is nothing I really want (tbh neither vs the AI, as it fails at these games).
Just I believe there is a shortage of things to ask at some given point. I buy a game to play, not to post about it on the forums, unless I've a necessity to actually post something.
I still check the forums daily for a new patch, some news about optional rules implemented, etc.
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
ORIGINAL: AllenK
Well, the optimistic explanation might be people are getting on with playing and enjoying this "unplayable" game and don't feel the need to post. The disgruntled are always the most vociferous.
It's not so much being disgruntled as simply being frustrated with the delays. Yes, the bug fixes and NetPlay are priorities. But at the end of the day I'm still looking for the Fascist Tide half map scenario and computer opponent. I'll take the Fascist Tide solitaire. But I'm kinda stuck at either the Barbarossa snack or a full blown Global War all-you-can-eat buffet. So I patiently wait. And monitor. Onwards...
Bill Macon
Empires in Arms Developer
Strategic Command Developer
Empires in Arms Developer
Strategic Command Developer
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
+1
Release some more scenarios, so at least solitaire is more replayable please, and we get a great variety of AAR's to follow.
Release some more scenarios, so at least solitaire is more replayable please, and we get a great variety of AAR's to follow.
"I don't believe in reincarnation because I refuse to come back as a bug or as a rabbit".
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
Starting my third Barbarossa hot seat using Teamviewer and still having a great time! No bugs since the second to last patch. Loving the game with Teamviewer. Soon will be doing a 3 player Guadalcanal via Teamviewer.
Is it perfect? No. But still the best computer game of this type ever IMHO.
Is it perfect? No. But still the best computer game of this type ever IMHO.
On the plains of hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who at the dawn of victory lay down to rest, and in resting died.
Adlai E. Stevenson
Adlai E. Stevenson
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
For any serious student of WW-2 this game is a must! For any serious student of WW-2 who is also a gamer this game is a double must!! For any serious student of WW-2 who is also a gamer but lacks the time and space to manage playing cardboard and paper wargames this game is a triple must!!!
I purchased and downloaded MWiF on February 16, 2014. I received my books and a copy of the installation disc just 5-days later on February 21, 2014. I installed MWiF immediately after my purchase (download) and began working my way through the tutorials to learn this game. I had no (0%) experience with WiF prior to my installation of MWiF over a year ago. MWiF was, and still remains, my only exposure to WiF.
I was immediately struck by the map and the ability to navigate the entire world as it was in WW-2 (1939 – 1945). I was also struck by the unit counters and the corresponding detailed writeups on each. I knew then that even if I didn’t play one turn (or impulse) of MWiF that this game was well worth the money just for the map and the sheer information alone on WW-2.
55-weeks ago I immersed myself in the (M)WiF experience, spending on average 15 hours/week (estimated). To date, this works out to a total of 825-hours. The price tag on this game, which also includes 3 wonderful hardbound volumes, is $99. This means I’ve got the cost of this game down to around 12-cents an hour. It won’t be long before I have it down to less than dime per hour and, by this time two years from now I will have the cost down to less than 5-cents per hour.
I count myself now as a “hardcore” fan of (M)WiF. I can honestly say though, without MWiF I would never have tackled WiF. Forget about the time and space required to setup and maintain the game, things which on the computer are trivial, there’s the massive set of rules to learn, interpret and remember. I for one am more than willing to let the computer handle this. In fact, given the demands of work and family, I just don’t have the time and energy to learn the rules and play this game the old fashion way. I know from some of you hardcore WiF fans that it’s a deal breaker when MWiF gets, by your interpretation, a critical rule wrong. Or, when MWiF isn’t “fixed” to enforce a rule when a workaround exist because of priorities. I’ve often wondered how many rules are unintentionally broken or invalid moves are made by mistake by two well meaning veteran WiF players during a course of a game? So for me, I’m fine with how the rules are handled by MWiF. So maybe that moves me from a hardcore fan to just a fan? No matter, for me having the computer handle the rules is a must. I just can’t play these games any other way at this stage in my life.
I’m continued to be amazed by how the mechanics of MWiF produce results at the strategic level that happened, or could have happened, during WW-2. One can play the game along an historical outline and get a gaming narrative that is also fairly historical accurate. However, one can follow an almost infinite number of realistic, but alternate outlines that will produce an almost infinite number of gaming narratives. Hence, this game is repayable to the max!
In a solo game I just stopped, the Germans were pretty much following the historical outline. It was winter 1941 and they were working with the Italians to finish off Greece. However, their main focus since the fall of France during July/August 1940 was akicking May/June 1941 invasion of the Soviet Union. Their build up in the East had been serious, but apparently not focused enough. The Soviets who were serious about discouraging the Germans from going to war with them had successfully stuffed the border and prevented a May/June 1941 surprise invasion by the Germans. Then came July/August, and still the Germans were discouraged from launching their planned invasion. While serious about their buildup to support a summer 1941 Barbarossa the Germans got diverted by much less important sideshows (i.e., Greece, Norway) and missed breaking the pact by 7 points. The Soviets had gambled on stopping a German DOW and won. Now, if they had miscalculated then their entire army and airforce would have been caught at the border by the invading Germans. It was a high risk strategy that paid very high dividends in this game. The German player (that’s me) learned that a laser focus is required if they hope to break the pact in May/June 1941. No other strategic WW-2 game that I’ve ever played has had such a high-risk, high-reward option for discouraging a 1941 Barbarossa. This is just one of many such examples that I’ve learned the hard way. Don’t get me started on the folly of trying to run convoys through the Med when the Italians are in the war. Or, the foolishness of the Italian navy (Regina Marina) trying to take the RN head on or being too active while the French are still in the war. Then there’s Japan trying to gobble up resources and oil to feed their hungry war machine and hoping that the US stays neutral. Or that sleeping giant, the US, that finally wakes up and starts cranking out an amazing number of ships, planes and offensive chits.
In software development there’s an axiom that is so true and goes like this: “Fast, Cheap or Good; pick any two.” Because we’re in a niche hobby, and unless we’re willing to pay $10,000 per copy, then I think it’s safe to assume that cheap is one of the two. And, getting to know Steve and the die hard (M)WiF fans this past year through this forum I’d say it’s also safe to assume that the second of the two is good. Now, unlike “similar” computer wargames built from scratch, good not only means a balanced game that’s fun to play with a pleasing interface, it also means a faithful adaptation of its paper and cardboard counter-part, WiF. So unless we want this forum and MWiF to fade away, like old soldiers do, we all must demonstrate patience because it ain’t going to be fast. And more than that, we must somehow find a way to grow our niche hobby by attracting more folks to it. I do hope I’m not part of a dying breed. That would be depressing indeed!
And by the way, if you had focus enough to get through my long winded post please have a beer on me! [:)]
I purchased and downloaded MWiF on February 16, 2014. I received my books and a copy of the installation disc just 5-days later on February 21, 2014. I installed MWiF immediately after my purchase (download) and began working my way through the tutorials to learn this game. I had no (0%) experience with WiF prior to my installation of MWiF over a year ago. MWiF was, and still remains, my only exposure to WiF.
I was immediately struck by the map and the ability to navigate the entire world as it was in WW-2 (1939 – 1945). I was also struck by the unit counters and the corresponding detailed writeups on each. I knew then that even if I didn’t play one turn (or impulse) of MWiF that this game was well worth the money just for the map and the sheer information alone on WW-2.
55-weeks ago I immersed myself in the (M)WiF experience, spending on average 15 hours/week (estimated). To date, this works out to a total of 825-hours. The price tag on this game, which also includes 3 wonderful hardbound volumes, is $99. This means I’ve got the cost of this game down to around 12-cents an hour. It won’t be long before I have it down to less than dime per hour and, by this time two years from now I will have the cost down to less than 5-cents per hour.
I count myself now as a “hardcore” fan of (M)WiF. I can honestly say though, without MWiF I would never have tackled WiF. Forget about the time and space required to setup and maintain the game, things which on the computer are trivial, there’s the massive set of rules to learn, interpret and remember. I for one am more than willing to let the computer handle this. In fact, given the demands of work and family, I just don’t have the time and energy to learn the rules and play this game the old fashion way. I know from some of you hardcore WiF fans that it’s a deal breaker when MWiF gets, by your interpretation, a critical rule wrong. Or, when MWiF isn’t “fixed” to enforce a rule when a workaround exist because of priorities. I’ve often wondered how many rules are unintentionally broken or invalid moves are made by mistake by two well meaning veteran WiF players during a course of a game? So for me, I’m fine with how the rules are handled by MWiF. So maybe that moves me from a hardcore fan to just a fan? No matter, for me having the computer handle the rules is a must. I just can’t play these games any other way at this stage in my life.
I’m continued to be amazed by how the mechanics of MWiF produce results at the strategic level that happened, or could have happened, during WW-2. One can play the game along an historical outline and get a gaming narrative that is also fairly historical accurate. However, one can follow an almost infinite number of realistic, but alternate outlines that will produce an almost infinite number of gaming narratives. Hence, this game is repayable to the max!
In a solo game I just stopped, the Germans were pretty much following the historical outline. It was winter 1941 and they were working with the Italians to finish off Greece. However, their main focus since the fall of France during July/August 1940 was akicking May/June 1941 invasion of the Soviet Union. Their build up in the East had been serious, but apparently not focused enough. The Soviets who were serious about discouraging the Germans from going to war with them had successfully stuffed the border and prevented a May/June 1941 surprise invasion by the Germans. Then came July/August, and still the Germans were discouraged from launching their planned invasion. While serious about their buildup to support a summer 1941 Barbarossa the Germans got diverted by much less important sideshows (i.e., Greece, Norway) and missed breaking the pact by 7 points. The Soviets had gambled on stopping a German DOW and won. Now, if they had miscalculated then their entire army and airforce would have been caught at the border by the invading Germans. It was a high risk strategy that paid very high dividends in this game. The German player (that’s me) learned that a laser focus is required if they hope to break the pact in May/June 1941. No other strategic WW-2 game that I’ve ever played has had such a high-risk, high-reward option for discouraging a 1941 Barbarossa. This is just one of many such examples that I’ve learned the hard way. Don’t get me started on the folly of trying to run convoys through the Med when the Italians are in the war. Or, the foolishness of the Italian navy (Regina Marina) trying to take the RN head on or being too active while the French are still in the war. Then there’s Japan trying to gobble up resources and oil to feed their hungry war machine and hoping that the US stays neutral. Or that sleeping giant, the US, that finally wakes up and starts cranking out an amazing number of ships, planes and offensive chits.
In software development there’s an axiom that is so true and goes like this: “Fast, Cheap or Good; pick any two.” Because we’re in a niche hobby, and unless we’re willing to pay $10,000 per copy, then I think it’s safe to assume that cheap is one of the two. And, getting to know Steve and the die hard (M)WiF fans this past year through this forum I’d say it’s also safe to assume that the second of the two is good. Now, unlike “similar” computer wargames built from scratch, good not only means a balanced game that’s fun to play with a pleasing interface, it also means a faithful adaptation of its paper and cardboard counter-part, WiF. So unless we want this forum and MWiF to fade away, like old soldiers do, we all must demonstrate patience because it ain’t going to be fast. And more than that, we must somehow find a way to grow our niche hobby by attracting more folks to it. I do hope I’m not part of a dying breed. That would be depressing indeed!
And by the way, if you had focus enough to get through my long winded post please have a beer on me! [:)]
Ronnie
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
Unfortunately I can't remember the last time I fired the game up, but safe to say it has been months.
I come back to the forum to check on some of the AAR's (particularly Centuur's excellent Musical Global war)and also to check the progress of things since the games release.
Unfortunately, progress has been extremely slow imo and the same things that have been issues in the past continue to dog the game to this day. Bugs abound, particularly with logistical rules and net play remains problematic. One of the reasons I picked up the game was the eventual promise of an AI and right now, I see that as years away at best. I also agree getting the "map" scenarios of Europe only or Pacific only would be good as well, but I don't think they have been touched. Don't get me started about the optional rules that were not included in release, but that the rules make reference to.
In short, there isn't really anything to give the majority of people that regularly visit this forum hope that significant process is being made with the game and that important milestones like net play, half map scenarios, AI, etc are making any significant progress. Hopefully that will change at some point, but that seems to remain a "some day" issue at this point.
I come back to the forum to check on some of the AAR's (particularly Centuur's excellent Musical Global war)and also to check the progress of things since the games release.
Unfortunately, progress has been extremely slow imo and the same things that have been issues in the past continue to dog the game to this day. Bugs abound, particularly with logistical rules and net play remains problematic. One of the reasons I picked up the game was the eventual promise of an AI and right now, I see that as years away at best. I also agree getting the "map" scenarios of Europe only or Pacific only would be good as well, but I don't think they have been touched. Don't get me started about the optional rules that were not included in release, but that the rules make reference to.
In short, there isn't really anything to give the majority of people that regularly visit this forum hope that significant process is being made with the game and that important milestones like net play, half map scenarios, AI, etc are making any significant progress. Hopefully that will change at some point, but that seems to remain a "some day" issue at this point.
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tevans6220
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:41 pm
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
I would love to start a new MWiF game but unfortunately ever since Matrix and Slitherine merged, I've had trouble downloading patches. I have a fiberoptic line and I can only connect at dialup speed or less. It doesn't matter the size of the patch the speed is always the same. Tried downloading a 35mb patch for War in the West and it was going to take me a couple of hours. The patch for MWiF is almost 800mb. Estimated time over 3 hours at 48 kbs. It's not worth it to me. I keep the books on the night table for reading in bed but that's all I've been able to do since I can't get the patch. If I could actually patch the game and play, I might post a few questions or something in these forums. I've even had to resort to registering some of my Matrix games with Steam just to get them patched up. CMaNO was the latest. I don't know what they did but it definitely has something to do with the takeover or merger. I never had trouble before then and I own almost 40 Matrix titles. Never had a problem before.
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paulderynck
- Posts: 8362
- Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:27 pm
- Location: Canada
RE: Sad, sad, sad.......
Have you contacted the Matrix Help Desk? Is it possible your AV program might be causing this? What you report here is rare indeed.ORIGINAL: tevans6220
I would love to start a new MWiF game but unfortunately ever since Matrix and Slitherine merged, I've had trouble downloading patches. I have a fiberoptic line and I can only connect at dialup speed or less. It doesn't matter the size of the patch the speed is always the same. Tried downloading a 35mb patch for War in the West and it was going to take me a couple of hours. The patch for MWiF is almost 800mb. Estimated time over 3 hours at 48 kbs. It's not worth it to me. I keep the books on the night table for reading in bed but that's all I've been able to do since I can't get the patch. If I could actually patch the game and play, I might post a few questions or something in these forums. I've even had to resort to registering some of my Matrix games with Steam just to get them patched up. CMaNO was the latest. I don't know what they did but it definitely has something to do with the takeover or merger. I never had trouble before then and I own almost 40 Matrix titles. Never had a problem before.
Paul