Does anyone use Theorists in playing PBEMS?

[AW1Steve]

I've been doing a lot of research into classical military and Naval thought lately and wondered if anyone here utilized their theories or doctrines in the games? Which ones? Clausewitz? Jomini? Sun Tzu? Mahan? Colbert? Wylie , Gray, Markov, or anyone else? Inquiring minds would like to know. [:)]

[RogerJNeilson]

Not in any overt way, but I've read much of them over the decades so they are kind of ingrained and occasionally they bob to the surface - like the Sun Tzu of always leave your enemy a route of escape.

More often I see a strategic or operational situation developing and it reminds me of a similar battle from another time.

Roger

[witpqs]

I follow his teachings:

[Lecivius]

And I follow this guy's ideas

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I've been doing a lot of research into classical military and Naval thought lately and wondered if anyone here utilized their theories or doctrines in the games? Which ones? Clausewitz? Jomini? Sun Tzu? Mahan? Colbert? Wylie , Gray, Markov, or anyone else? Inquiring minds would like to know. [:)]

Not per se, but I'm really into the psychology meta-game of AE to the point that I've went down roads that would be considered far from optimal in order to get an opponent to do something.

There's two ways to win AE: one is seeing the auto-victory screen, the other is breaking the opponents will to play.

[desicat]

Every Japanese player has to judge when the KB crosses the line and has to transition from Sea Control to a becoming a Fleet in Being.

The Idea of a 'Fleet in Being'

[Jorge_Stanbury]

If you are Allies and the year is 1942 this is your man:
Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus Cunctator

As you can see in this picture, he is trying to figure out what to do next: he just lost 4 carriers, his China theatre is a complete mess and the Japanese are advancing in India

[castor troy]

Reading the thread title I first read "Terrorists" instead of "Theorists"

[Mundy]

I've always wondered if some true operations research nerd would break the economic and logistics system.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Mundy

I've always wondered if some true operations research nerd would break the economic and logistics system.

I think that was rader. He did some crazy things with the Japanese economy. I think he's training for space exploration now!?

As to the OP, Nemo certainly used Soviet doctrine in multiple ways in his games. Check his AARs.

[AW1Steve]

I'll have to go back and re-read his AAR's. But what I'm really looking for is some "Theory of war" that is applicable to WITP. Mahan just doesn't work. Clausewitz, SunTzu , Jomini , Coubert (who seems to work the best) and some of the Russians all work in part , but no one in total. I've been buying and tracking down everything I can find , but no luck ,on anyone theory. Instead , it's more like a Chinese menu, one from column "a" and two from column "B" .

Maybe I need to synthesis or distill them all into one "Steve's Maximums for WITP"? If I did , the 1st one would probably read "All warfare is based upon geography " (apologies to Sun Tzu). [:D]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Mundy

I've always wondered if some true operations research nerd would break the economic and logistics system.

I think that was rader. He did some crazy things with the Japanese economy. I think he's training for space exploration now!?

As to the OP, memo certainly used Soviet doctrine in multiple ways in his games. Check his AARs.

I know you meant Nemo: he did write some memos! [:D]

[Canoerebel]

As Obvert noted (but misspelled [:)]), Nemo was a dedicated student of the "art of war," including delving into theorists. I think Nemo was also very good in the application of theory and the use of psychology and other stuff. He had some interesting thoughts on the use of "white space," which I briefly understood by applying all my brain power and then promptly forgot.

I'm sure there are and have been other players of similar ability and inclination. But Nemo was outspoken enough that people got to know him and his thoughts.

Most of us would not be surprised to find that Alfred is similarly knowledgeable about war theory and its application, including the adept use of pscyholody to manipulate things to one's favor, but Alfred is taciturn (I think that's the correct term; I meant to convey that he's a man of few words) and he doesn't play the game head-to-head, as far as I know. Thus, there are no AARs by Alfred in which we could marvel at the thinking behind his moves. With Nemo's interesting AARs, there was plenty of that kind of thing.

The WitP/AE forum has been (and is) one of the most interesting populations I've ever met. But then, I'm from backwoods Georgia, so perhaps this impression comes from a dearth of experience? Perhaps, but I still think this is a remarkable community.

Except for John III, Miller, and Q-Ball. They are nefarious former opponents and therefore dastardly.

[Lokasenna]

Alfred, Nemo, Rader...

I think there's lots of bits of insight in a whole bunch of the AARs that goes unrecognized/unwitnessed simply because they aren't forum celebrities. [8D]

[JocMeister]

I´m with witpqs. [:)]

This is a game and as with all games you just have to figure out how it works. Just like Rader did. Trying to apply some real world doctrines or theories probably won´t work very well. For role playing purposes it might be fun though. But if you play to win you are probably much better off forming your own "doctrine" within the boundaries of the game.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
Trying to apply some real world doctrines or theories probably won´t work very well. For role playing purposes it might be fun though. But if you play to win you are probably much better off forming your own "doctrine" within the boundaries of the game.

Exactly.

[Encircled]

My theory is based around the desire to "Avoid a Midway". I just need to think of a fancy name for it and I'm away.

"Encircledom"

[Pilsator]

Just about the Theory of the game mechanic. Else does not count in games.

And I would not call Jomini a doctrine or a theory. It is just common sense, nothing spectacular. Attacking your opponents with superior foces etc.


In WitPAE playing the Allies you could use the theory of Giulio Douhet. To perfection...

[Lecivius]

Chaos Mechanics AK dice rolls [;)]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

As Obvert noted (but misspelled [:)]), Nemo was a dedicated student of the "art of war" ...

Damn auto-correct!!

Deep-battle was brought to naval and air ops in the Pacific as well as ground warfare. Pretty interesting stuff, but, as Dan points out, hard to decipher. I usually skipped a few paragraphs between the thesis statement and the conclusion in Nemo's explanations. [:)]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Maybe I need to synthesis or distill them all into one "Steve's Maximums for WITP"? If I did , the 1st one would probably read "All warfare is based upon geography " (apologies to Sun Tzu). [:D]

In relation to stacking limits this would be especially relevant.

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Alfred, Nemo, Rader...

I think there's lots of bits of insight in a whole bunch of the AARs that goes unrecognized/unwitnessed simply because they aren't forum celebrities. [8D]

So, in light of this, (and that the wife is asleep and I just poured myself a Woodford Reserve and sat down to do my late Friday night turn), what are the top ten most informative, thorough, insightful AARed games in the history of AE? Maybe a top-ten list of games new players should look at to get this kind of history, strategic insight and game knowledge? Games where we can see a style play out to the end.

I'd vote for several, but at the top would be PzB vs Andy Mac followed shortly by rader vs GreyJoy. Canoerebel vs Q-Ball would have been right there if it had at least gotten to mid-44.