Air supply

[Seminole]

I'm still convinced that air supply into a hex that is already connected to the supply grid just initiates a pull from available depots for the impacted units (instead of just distributing what is air dropped) and I think that could be a balance issue, but I noticed another thing that has to be a bug last night.

You can use a simple Stab LB group to trigger this extra supply phase. Doesn't matter if all 2 or 3 planes get shot down because the supply draw will happen from the nearest depot on the supply grid, but you should be charged an administrative point for using an LB (lost my Italian transports to the Italian Surrender bug/condition check failure). I had 1 point left and flew the mission and successfully topped a PzG from <40% to >90% fuel, etc.
I had three other units I wanted to drop air supply to (running up the toe from Reggio Calabria to new defensive positions). Even though my admin points were 0 the game still let me use the LB groups to air supply. It's apparently not checking if there are sufficient points first (as it would building an FZ). Perhaps it subtracts the 1 AP subsequently, but can't go lower than zero?

Server game Seminole v Bomazz, but shouldn't need a save specific to this game in order to recreate the bug.

[Joel Billings]

Isn't there a short range limit like 1 or 3 hexes for how far the depots can give out freight during air resupply? Also, were depots that didn't have freight dropped to them give out freight, or were they depots that were having freight dropped to them? The rules indicate that if you drop supplies to a depot that this depot can give out some of what it already had, but it doesn't say that other depots can also give out freight.

[Seminole]

Isn't there a short range limit like 1 or 3 hexes for how far the depots can give out freight during air resupply? Also, were depots that didn't have freight dropped to them give out freight, or were they depots that were having freight dropped to them? The rules indicate that if you drop supplies to a depot that this depot can give out some of what it already had, but it doesn't say that other depots can also give out freight.

Here's my guess as to what is happening:

Temp depot is created in the hex by the air drop. I have a feeling that when designed the context things were considered in was that this temporary depot was isolated from the supply grid.

When air freight is air transported to a hex,
if there is no depot in the hex, a temporary depot is
created. Whether a temporary depot or an already
existing depot receives the air transported freight, the
instant an air transported shipment arrives in a hex,
a special distribution takes places of freight from the
depot in the hex. This special distribution is of supplies,
fuel and ammo only (no replacements) and goes
to units in the hex or adjacent to the hex. If there is
already freight in the depot, then some of this freight
may be distributed out along with the freight that was
dropped. It is much more efficient to transport freight
to a hex with an air base unit than to a hex with no
airfield. If there is no airfield, it is better to drop in clear
than in worse terrain. Temporary and isolated depots
are not allowed to convert freight into vehicles from the
pool. They are not allowed to distribute replacements
during the logistics phase, but can replenish units in
the pocket with them during the logistics phase using
standard non-vehicle methods 20.4.1.1) as well as by
using any vehicles already in the depot or vehicles
requisitioned to the depot from units in the pocket.
Temporary depots remain until the hex is linked to a
supply source, at which point the temporary depot is
disbanded (20.1.6).

My suspicion is that the air freight mission triggers a logistics phase. Under the condition of a temporary depot isolated from the supply grid only the supplies delivered, or that were already stacked in that hex, would be available for delivery.
I think what happens when supplies are air dropped onto the supply grid another rule takes over:

"Once the closest depot is depleted of freight, a unit will try to get its remaining needs from the next closest depot." (20.5)

That's why I can use an LB Stab, drop 0 tons of freight onto a hex that doesn't have a depot, and see the 'affected units' (those in the target hex and adjacent) make a pull from nearby depot(s) instead just from the temp depot in the target hex.
I think this 'bonus' logistics phase can go a long way in undoing the general supply problems that Allied bombing (and rapid advance) can create too. That's why I'm worried it is a play balance issue. Works both ways, too. I've 'gassed up' 2nd Amored to >90%, and the allies have lots of air transport groups and generally air superiority. You can set a little group like the Albemarle to 'single mission' and trigger a hit on the ground supply network. Gives you great MP for next turn and potentially a nice CV bump (see Schmalz Bde improvement in this example)

I just fired up a test and confirmed my suspicion.
Opened Battleground Italy 43-45. Cancelled all WA air directives and clicked through their turn. Set all Axis air groups to rest and clicked through their air execution phase. I ran a few German mech units around on Sicily and had them park next each other (btw, not even on an airbase hex). Screenshot of their supply situation before and after the airdrop. I selected a single Stab of Ju88 to conduct a single mission. Screen says they'll transport 4 tons of supply.



Bam! All three mech units back over 90% supply and gas.
Look at Messina depot information before and after the air mission:

Stored --- Sent out
42963 ----- 1644
37930 ----- 6655

If I had more units stacked around the air drop hex I'm sure more supply would have flowed.
This is how it works, but I'm not sure it is working an intended (or perhaps working as considered is a better way to put it).

[Joel Billings]

Gary is surprised that depots other than in the drop hex are resupplying units, although there are other ways you can get resupplied during the movement phase. He asked if you can send us a save where we can do a drop and see what you are seeing so he can try to figure out what routine might be kicking in that shouldn't to resupply units. Please attach the save here or email to 2by3@2by3games.com. Thanks.

[Seminole]

Email sent.

I think it's rule 20.5 that is kicking in.

The special logistics phase (that doesn't allow replacements) needs to not allow switching to other available depots once the first one is empty.

Player can still get good effect from huddling around a depot and doing the air supply, but that would be much more cumbersome (especially under good interdiction), and not much of an exploit.

The way it works now goes a long way in undoing all the supply chain effects, that's why it seemed broken.