Spanking of the Sheep! - Allied Surrender on T53

[marion61]

I see you have escorts most days. I have trouble keeping them on missions late in the week

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

Joc can you share your air directive settings for 8th? There was a question about it in the general forum. I still cant get my 8th to fly that many bombers in one strike, but I am probably doing it wrong =p

Its the same one as I wrote down earlier.

For bombers I set 300%, 1 strike/day and REQ at 1200. That usually gives you one big strike. But not always. Some rolls involved no doubt.

It messes the AI up though and you might not get any more strikes to fly that week. [:(] So I only use them for the 8th when hitting big targets. If you do the same on say Tactical you might end up with them flying only the first AD and then skip the rest set for them. So I use it cautiously...I have times when only the first day of the AD is flown too.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: loki100
air war seems to be going your way quite dramatically ... as to the above ... would you like to share where you are planning to land then?

Well, only have Italy or Europe to chose from. So mostly likely one of them! [;)]

In all seriousness though I´m actually thinking about skipping Italy all together. I´m doubtful the VP losses from the landing and combat there can be made up from the positive city VPs. And I don´t need Italy for anything as I can reach Ploesti from Sicily.

Besides if I´m right it kind of proves my point about the VP system... [:D]

[JocMeister]

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[font="Verdana"]Turn 26 November 1943[/font]
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Very short update as I´m short on time.

The 8th hit Hamburg knocking out the U-boats. BC wrecks some more MAN over the Ruhr.

In the Med we destroy another 300 planes on the ground.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: loki100
air war seems to be going your way quite dramatically ... as to the above ... would you like to share where you are planning to land then?

Well, only have Italy or Europe to chose from. So mostly likely one of them! [;)]

In all seriousness though I´m actually thinking about skipping Italy all together. I´m doubtful the VP losses from the landing and combat there can be made up from the positive city VPs. And I don´t need Italy for anything as I can reach Ploesti from Sicily.

Besides if I´m right it kind of proves my point about the VP system... [:D]

interesting as I'm starting to think on the same lines. If possible clear out the south for the air bases (though B-17s can hit Ploesti from Sicily), and be very pragmatic about the rest. The VPs for holding Rome and Naples are nice, but you can take a lot of VP losses securing them (and even more in losing them). Better to save your ships and VPs for an invasion of France?

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: loki100
interesting as I'm starting to think on the same lines. If possible clear out the south for the air bases (though B-17s can hit Ploesti from Sicily), and be very pragmatic about the rest. The VPs for holding Rome and Naples are nice, but you can take a lot of VP losses securing them (and even more in losing them). Better to save your ships and VPs for an invasion of France?

Precisely. [:)]

At least I thought so until I read the manual some 10 minutes ago! [:D]

On February 1, 1944 if the Allies do not control at least
10 hexes in mainland France, Northern Europe or Italy,
the Allies lose 400 victory points

So either France OR Italy before February. I might land on Italy anyway for pure "D-day practice". But landing in Southern France would do the same thing....Need to decide shortly! [:)]

[JocMeister]

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[font="Verdana"]Turn 26. November 1943[/font]
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Another good round. +9VPs from last turn. Its a shame I have to attack and lose them soon. [;)]

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Europe
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Resistance has almost completely ceased over the Ruhr. The Bomber Command Halifaxes hit the Manpower while the 8th take out the remaining HI and Fuel. Only 70 German fighters take to the skies. [X(]

Some 600 are still covering the U-boats around Hamburg though. Luckily we managed to destroy all 35 Factories in a single bombing last turn. That dropped VP loss from -7 to -4.

In a couple of turns another 400 Heavies + 150 Escorts arrive. The AI is not handling multiple targets well. Often the second target is never attacked despite the first target being attacked almost completely without loss. Even less so a third target. So I´m thinking I might divide the 8th into two parts. 60% in the 8th and the rest with the Halifaxes of BC. It could very well double efficiency.

Two P38 squadrons of the 8th are upgraded to P51s. The next P51 model is now available which allowed this.

The 9th have taken out all the V launch sites in France and Belgium. Have to keep my eye open so Pelton doesn´t start repairing them.

[JocMeister]

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The Med
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Hmm, not sure what Pelton is doing. He keeps moving in planes to be destroyed. Another 300 or thereabouts destroyed on the ground. Airfields keep repairing though. Might not be possible to keep them closed.

Is there any certain threshold for when a base is no longer operational?

I also did some number crunching. The LW is nowhere near collapsing. Around 1500 109 in the pools. Bombers looks a bit worse but still a couple of hundred in the pool of each kind.

I´ve finally decided my next move. More on that later. Back to WitE now! [&o]

[JocMeister]

I actually came up with a reason to invade Italy...[:D]

WARNING! Stop reading here if you don´t want to read another rant on how bad the VP system is... [;)]

Did some quick math from my game with Pelton. I´m at -27 VPs and gaining around 4-8 VP on average right now. We have 83 more turns to go. If I can manage a cheap ass landing somewhere I have pretty much secured a guaranteed draw. Not too shabby? Anyone here think I can do better then a draw against Pelton? Not me! [:D]

Somehow I don´t think I´m the only one thinking along those lines. Want to guess where the "no beachhead" -400 VPs come from? I bet its a band-aid on a bad design. Someone else probably came to the same idea when it was in BETA testing. Instead of fixing the real problem with the VP system they threw that in to force people to do land somewhere rather then just avoiding the biggest negative VPs drain the WAs has to suffer completely. Using big penalties to force players to behave a certain way is always a good idea? No? [:)]

I´m sourly temped to do the cheapest possible landing I can to just secure my 10 hexes and then sit back and get the draw... If anything just to prove my point...[;)] If it wern´t for the "no beachhead" I wouldn´t land at all.

Then again I might be the only who doesn´t think a game like this should be about trying to figure out how to loose as little VPs as possible by not fighting?

Okay, rant over! [:D]

[marion61]

I hope that not playing is not your solution? You can probably do that, but then it wouldn't be a game. It just needs a little tweak, and maybe make it a little more lucrative to invade Italy.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: meklore61

I hope that not playing is not your solution? You can probably do that, but then it wouldn't be a game. It just needs a little tweak, and maybe make it a little more lucrative to invade Italy.

Of course I won´t. I was just making a point. [:)]

[barkman44]

Technically Sicily was part of Italy,although you'd probably get an argument from the Sicilian's about that.
They considered themselves Sicilian's not Italian's.

[barkman44]

I'm trying to figure out what the 300% is for,min ac req?I've been setting the 8th-strike#-1 min ac-1,req ac-999.
results 360 bombers.changed min.to 300% and increased req.to 1200.result 360 bmr's.can't figure it out.
Only bright spot was last raid on hamburg resulted in 1 bmr loss,maybe because all 202 escorts flew.

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

Joc can you share your air directive settings for 8th? There was a question about it in the general forum. I still cant get my 8th to fly that many bombers in one strike, but I am probably doing it wrong =p

Its the same one as I wrote down earlier.

For bombers I set 300%, 1 strike/day and REQ at 1200. That usually gives you one big strike. But not always. Some rolls involved no doubt.

It messes the AI up though and you might not get any more strikes to fly that week. [:(] So I only use them for the 8th when hitting big targets. If you do the same on say Tactical you might end up with them flying only the first AD and then skip the rest set for them. So I use it cautiously...I have times when only the first day of the AD is flown too.

[decourcy2]

I think there should be more VP's handed out for forcing Italian surrender and VP's for taking Rome, creating a real Italian ally.
We tend to disparage Italy in WW2, and just generally discount there existence but this was not the case in WW2. The Allies put great store in conquering Fascist Italy and creating a free Italian Ally.

[marion61]

I didn't really think you were, but I had to check to make sure.[;)]

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: barkorn45

I'm trying to figure out what the 300% is for,min ac req?I've been setting the 8th-strike#-1 min ac-1,req ac-999.
results 360 bombers.changed min.to 300% and increased req.to 1200.result 360 bmr's.can't figure it out.
Only bright spot was last raid on hamburg resulted in 1 bmr loss,maybe because all 202 escorts flew.

Ah, sorry I should have been clearer! You need to go in under "Air Doctrine" and set the "Mis Pct" to 300. Do this ONLY for BC and the 8th. Keep in mind though that this pretty much rules out any chance of having a second target.

If you set the 8th to hit Hamburg on Monday and Wednesday and Bremen on Friday the attack on Bremen will never happen. So if you want to have any chance at all to hit multiple targets you will have to set it back to 100. Chances are they won´t take off for Bremen anyway but it does happen from time to time. But with the 8th set to 300 I will never happen. At least not in my game.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: meklore61

I didn't really think you were, but I had to check to make sure.[;)]

[;)]

[JocMeister]

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[font="Verdana"]Turn 27. November 1943[/font]
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A slow turn with very little to report. +1 VPs. The 8th and BC continue to pummel the Ruhr which is pretty much in Ruins now. I´ll start looking for new targets soon. The 9th clear out the last of the V-Weapons. 0 VPs loss this turn. [&o]

In the Med Tactical and 15th stand down. Recon is sent out further out to try and find where the Luftwaffe went. While the operation to hit the LW on the ground wasn´t a definitive blow it certainly had some success.

LW is down around 650 planes from 3 weeks of bombing. With the huge Fighter pools I can only hope its 650 bombers less to worry about.

Got the turn back just before bed so I didn´t bother with any screens. Sorry about that. [:)]

[JocMeister]

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[font="Verdana"]Turn 28. January 1944[/font]
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Another quiet turn. Weather over Europe is really bad but I keep flying. Every small VP counts and I don´t lose any VPs for lost planes...so bomb away oblivious to losses! Run the pools dry!

Game crashed after fiddling with stuff for an hour so I got pretty angry and forgot to take screens.

In the Med we find a horde of LW fighters around La Spezia and destroy some 200 on the ground. We also find a full KG and burn their planes on the runway. Some 300 planes are destroyed for about 150 Allied ones.

Now for the bad part...Since I didn´t know about the "no beachhead VP penalty" I havn´t exactly been in a rush to land somewhere. Pretty stupid of me to not read up on that...[8|] I won´t be able to land AND take 10 hexes in two turns. So there you go Pelton. Help yourself to -400 VPs. Doh! [:D]

[Baelfiin]

Joc I thought I posted about this somewhere 8(