Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
Moderator: MOD_Command
Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
Hi,
Hope some one can help me with this. I have had CMANO for a while but have only recently given it a go and am still learning how to play it. I recently played the new Fishing Wars scenario. Basically the three OPV/PV's in the scenario fired approximately 1300 rds of 76 HE at each other in bursts of four or two rounds. Engagement range was between 2 and 5 miles and WX was seat state 5 with rain. Only one ship received any direct hits, of which there were very few, but didnt seem to sustain any critical damage as it was still able to fire and maneuver at speed. The other ships only took minor splash damage from near misses. The 20mm Bushmaster on the ESP ship appeared to be doing more damage when that got within effective range. I expended the entire 76mm magazine on both IRL ships and then had to turn and run as the 20mm on the ESP ship was causing severe damage.
I found this a bit strange. Can someone explain this to me? It doesnt seem accurate
Cheers
Hope some one can help me with this. I have had CMANO for a while but have only recently given it a go and am still learning how to play it. I recently played the new Fishing Wars scenario. Basically the three OPV/PV's in the scenario fired approximately 1300 rds of 76 HE at each other in bursts of four or two rounds. Engagement range was between 2 and 5 miles and WX was seat state 5 with rain. Only one ship received any direct hits, of which there were very few, but didnt seem to sustain any critical damage as it was still able to fire and maneuver at speed. The other ships only took minor splash damage from near misses. The 20mm Bushmaster on the ESP ship appeared to be doing more damage when that got within effective range. I expended the entire 76mm magazine on both IRL ships and then had to turn and run as the 20mm on the ESP ship was causing severe damage.
I found this a bit strange. Can someone explain this to me? It doesnt seem accurate
Cheers
RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
1) Small ships --> Twitchy gun platforms
2) Moderately bad weather --> lots of rolling
3) Rain --> EO/Visual sensors degraded
4) Targets: other small ships --> Need very good accuracy to make direct hits.
1 + 2 + 3 ==> Gun accuracy severely degraded. + 4 ==> Very few direct hits.
2) Moderately bad weather --> lots of rolling
3) Rain --> EO/Visual sensors degraded
4) Targets: other small ships --> Need very good accuracy to make direct hits.
1 + 2 + 3 ==> Gun accuracy severely degraded. + 4 ==> Very few direct hits.
RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
Hi Sunburn,
Thanks for the reply and thanks for the explanation. That sheds light on the accuracy ussue.
Could you explain the apparent lack of damage too? I think the Spanish Ship took at least 4 direct hits. I would have thought that would have been enough to sink her. I thought it would have at least taken out some of here sensors and weapons.
Thanks again.
Thanks for the reply and thanks for the explanation. That sheds light on the accuracy ussue.
Could you explain the apparent lack of damage too? I think the Spanish Ship took at least 4 direct hits. I would have thought that would have been enough to sink her. I thought it would have at least taken out some of here sensors and weapons.
Thanks again.
RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
Check out the damage point totals on those 76mm rounds. Not all that impressive. Naval gunfire usually relies greatly on fire and flooding modifiers to get its' kills. Fire from the closest possible range that doesn't allow return fire (if possible) for best accuracy.
RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
Hi Primarchx
That explains the modelling of damage much better. Cheers.
I might be getting a bit fiddly about this but after taking a couple of direct hits of 76 HE you would think a small ships capability too fight would be dramatically reduces based on lost crew, DC parties, degraded situational awareness etc. A larger ship would/might be able to cope but I don't see how a smaller one would or could. I would have thought after taking one or two hits it would have attempted to disengage, scuttle or surrender. Just my "two cents" on the matter.
Thanks again for the helpful replies.
That explains the modelling of damage much better. Cheers.
I might be getting a bit fiddly about this but after taking a couple of direct hits of 76 HE you would think a small ships capability too fight would be dramatically reduces based on lost crew, DC parties, degraded situational awareness etc. A larger ship would/might be able to cope but I don't see how a smaller one would or could. I would have thought after taking one or two hits it would have attempted to disengage, scuttle or surrender. Just my "two cents" on the matter.
Thanks again for the helpful replies.
RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
Good luck hitting anything with guns!
RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
ORIGINAL: tarfman
Hi Primarchx
That explains the modelling of damage much better. Cheers.
I might be getting a bit fiddly about this but after taking a couple of direct hits of 76 HE you would think a small ships capability too fight would be dramatically reduces based on lost crew, DC parties, degraded situational awareness etc. A larger ship would/might be able to cope but I don't see how a smaller one would or could. I would have thought after taking one or two hits it would have attempted to disengage, scuttle or surrender. Just my "two cents" on the matter.
Thanks again for the helpful replies.
Hi Tarfman
I don't disagree but there are many variables to consider. Do you you remember what the fire and flooding levels were on the vessels at the time?
BTW. In the future if you can grab a save that would be great. Just helps us look at stop and understand exactly what you're seeing. We are still here and do improve stuff when we can.
Mike
RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
ORIGINAL: jarraya
Good luck hitting anything with guns!
Need more detail. Can't do anything with this. If its a snipe you're wasting time and effort on basically nothing.
Thanks!
Mike
RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
Guns work just fine in Command. You need to know how to employ them to their greatest effect, though.
See my post on how to manage this.
See my post on how to manage this.
RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
Great work Primarchx!
Mike
Mike
RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
Hi,
Mike, I would say the fire and flooding levels on the Spanish vessel, which was the only vessel to take direct hits, was approximately 50% and 40% respectively when at there highest. It was also still steaming at 16kn's in sea state 5 and all its systems appeared to be operational. I can send you a save file but not sure if it will be any good. It is towards the end of the scenario and the Spanish vessel has had several hours for DC and to fight the fire. Let me know if you want it and I will send it on Great to see the dev's are still looking to help noobs out.
Primarchx, that is an impressive post and is very helpful. Thanks for pointing it out.
Colm
Mike, I would say the fire and flooding levels on the Spanish vessel, which was the only vessel to take direct hits, was approximately 50% and 40% respectively when at there highest. It was also still steaming at 16kn's in sea state 5 and all its systems appeared to be operational. I can send you a save file but not sure if it will be any good. It is towards the end of the scenario and the Spanish vessel has had several hours for DC and to fight the fire. Let me know if you want it and I will send it on Great to see the dev's are still looking to help noobs out.
Primarchx, that is an impressive post and is very helpful. Thanks for pointing it out.
Colm
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RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
Thanks Primarch. Great work!
A revolutionary technology for naval guns could be guided naval projectiles
But I think they are still not included into the game, correct? I would love to see them at work.
Thanks
Francesco
A revolutionary technology for naval guns could be guided naval projectiles
But I think they are still not included into the game, correct? I would love to see them at work.
Thanks
Francesco
RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
ORIGINAL: giantsquid
Thanks Primarch. Great work!
A revolutionary technology for naval guns could be guided naval projectiles
But I think they are still not included into the game, correct? I would love to see them at work.
Thanks
Francesco
The 155mm AGS has guided shells and I recall Excalibur rounds, too. Both are GPS projectiles not capable against ships, though.
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RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
Yes, you are right.
I was thinking about the Davide (76mm) and Vulcano (127mm) guided rounds by Otomelara, capable against ships and aircrafts/missiles - The system doesn't let me post links but you can find them easily.
Francesco
I was thinking about the Davide (76mm) and Vulcano (127mm) guided rounds by Otomelara, capable against ships and aircrafts/missiles - The system doesn't let me post links but you can find them easily.
Francesco
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RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
Looks like the U.S. Navy is looking at guided rounds for the 5" guns for moving target anti ship work.
http://news.usni.org/2014/06/03/navy-taking-second-look-five-inch-guided-round
http://www.baesystems.com/product/BAES_157359/5-multi-service---standard-guided-projectile;baeSessionId=FrJ1akOS4DPROXOy8GOm8gQH86OSMkxA9aLwKVZgnYdN8RAqlghA!-577059306?_afrLoop=1671165625616000&_afrWindowMode=0&_afrWindowId=null
.pdf datasheet on the round here: http://www.baesystems.com/cs/groups/public/documents/document/mdaw/mdqx/~edisp/baes_027604.pdf
Video of test firing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGN4zyPwMdw
http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot.com/2013/07/a-new-golden-era-for-naval-guns.html
Regarding Vulcano round with an IR seeker:
http://news.usni.org/2014/06/03/navy-taking-second-look-five-inch-guided-round
The RFI is looking for a maximum 61-inch round that would supplement, “Naval Surface Fire Support (NSFS) / Land Attack missions, and increase capabilities for Anti-Surface Warfare (ASuW), including against Fast Attack Craft (FAC) and Fast In-Shore Attack Craft (FIAC),” according to the document.
BAE Systems told USNI News it planned to submit its internally developed Multi Service – Standard Guided Projectile (MS-SGP) in response to the RFI.
“When fired from a Mk 45 Mod 4, our MS-SGP will deliver fires to stationary or moving targets out to 54 nautical miles,” said Tom Pfenning, BAE Systems, Director – Munitions Programs in a Friday statement to USNI News.
Raytheon also submitted information on on its Excalibur guided projectile, a company spokeswoman told USNI News on June 4, following an earlier version of this post.
“Raytheon has submitted a response to the U.S. Navy’s RFI for extended range guided projectile,” read the statement.
“Raytheon has demonstrated the ability to develop and produce an affordable, reliable guided projectile for the U.S. Army with Excalibur Ia and Ib that consistently meets and exceeds warfighter requirements.”
Italian firm Oto Melara is also reported to be submitting its 127 mm Vulcano guided long-range projectile, according to a report in Jane’s Defence Weekly. Responses to the RFI are due to NAVSEA by Wednesday.
http://www.baesystems.com/product/BAES_157359/5-multi-service---standard-guided-projectile;baeSessionId=FrJ1akOS4DPROXOy8GOm8gQH86OSMkxA9aLwKVZgnYdN8RAqlghA!-577059306?_afrLoop=1671165625616000&_afrWindowMode=0&_afrWindowId=null
With more than fifty-five Mk 45 Mod 4 Naval Guns deployed worldwide, the 5-Inch Multi Service - SGP greatly expands the capacity to provide long range joint fires and support asymmetric operations around the world. The Mk 45 Mod 4 will deliver 5-Inch fires at a maximum rate of 10 rounds per minute to 52 nautical miles to achieve desired effects. The 5-Inch Multi Service - SGP offers rapid time of flight and the capability of in-flight retargeting to address moving targets, changing target conditions, and surface threats.
.pdf datasheet on the round here: http://www.baesystems.com/cs/groups/public/documents/document/mdaw/mdqx/~edisp/baes_027604.pdf
Video of test firing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGN4zyPwMdw
http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot.com/2013/07/a-new-golden-era-for-naval-guns.html
Regarding Vulcano round with an IR seeker:
The IIR seeker is instead meant primarily for anti-ship role. This variant of the round is in fact produced only for the 127mm naval guns. Targeting enemy ships on the open sea is a complex job, and it might be very hard, if not flat-out impossible, to have a third party observer marking the target with a laser. The anti-ship VULCANO is meant to be fired over the area where an enemy ship is known to be sailing, and engage the target on its own.
The ammunition is thus programmed to enter a descending trajectory already a few miles before entering the target area, allowing the built-in IIR seeker to scan the surface of the sea to detect and track the heat signature of the enemy vessel. Once the target is located, the maneuvering round will pursue it, using its canards and fins to steer to compensate for the enemy’s evasive maneuvers.
Much cheaper than an anti-ship missile, the VULCANO IIR is much less deadly, taken singularly, since its warhead is much, much smaller. However, a dart as small and fast as a VULCANO is considerably harder to detect, track and engage with hard-kill defences such as CIWS guns and missiles. Besides, a big number of guided shells can be fired in very short time against the same target, saturating its defences and inflicting deadly damage with multiple hits.
The anti-ship ammunition has shorter legs, since it begins to descend from its ballistic trajectory much earlier than the other variants, to enable the IIR seeker to find the target. A warship will be engaged at around 70 to 80 km.
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RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
Very informative, especially UKarmedforcescommentary
Thanks. Hope we can see them in the new Command update.
The 155mm AGS is already working in the game!
Francesco
Thanks. Hope we can see them in the new Command update.
The 155mm AGS is already working in the game!
Francesco
RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
ORIGINAL: mikmyk
ORIGINAL: jarraya
Good luck hitting anything with guns!
Need more detail. Can't do anything with this. If its a snipe you're wasting time and effort on basically nothing.
Thanks!
Mike
Mike,
Not a snipe at all! It's just hard to hit things with guns, that's all. Please don't read negativity
into my comments.
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RE: Effectiveness of the 76mm Auto Melera in Fishing Wars Scenario
Thanks. Hope we can see them in the new Command update.
The 155mm AGS is already working in the game!
Actually, if you go into the Editor, you can see a few of the guided rounds already in the database. Found the Vulcano round with the IR seeker as well.