New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

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JSF
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New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by JSF »

Hi Guys,

attached my first Command scenario.

At least two issues so far. Since I don´t know how to solve hem, I post this early version for getting help.

Issue One: How to adjust the scoring system? Which values are logical and how are they connected with the primary goals?

Issue Two: I cannot launch aircraft from the Baltic bases. It looks like some facilities are lacking in those pre-configured airbases (?). But which ones and how to implement them?

I tried to add some, but in vain. Could not integrate them in the existing group = existing airbase.

Any help is really appreciated.

Revision a as of 2015-02-15:

- imported Supreme´s Amari Airbase
- deleted and rebuilt Siaulia Airbase

result: aircraft now actually can launch

- reworked the side´s postures


Revision c as of 2015-02-18:

- set up the events and the scoring system
- reworked the Russian missions

result: this revision should be playable now, please test.

This version has been upgraded to V 1.07. build 673 and done with the latest DB3000.

Many thanks to MGellis who helped me out with the event editor and scoring system.


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New Russia..ng_rev_c.zip
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mikmykWS
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by mikmykWS »

The airbases are missing a taxiway or runway access point. Where did you get these files? If its from someone in the community let them know. Front now you could just replace them with the all in one air bases in the game or build out your own with the correct facilities.

Scoring points is an action in the event editor. You can see a number of triggers that would cause those actions to occur (aircraft destroyed etc). You add these to an event which you can set to trigger once or many times.

The Scoring evalution function can be found in the editor drop down. You just set the high and low of each side the and the game calculates everything in between. Its use in optional.

Much of this is covered in the manual in great detail. Please do review it.

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JSF
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by JSF »

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

The airbases are missing a taxiway or runway access point. Where did you get these files? If its from someone in the community let them know. Front now you could just replace them with the all in one air bases in the game or build out your own with the correct facilities.

Scoring points is an action in the event editor. You can see a number of triggers that would cause those actions to occur (aircraft destroyed etc). You add these to an event which you can set to trigger once or many times.

The Scoring evalution function can be found in the editor drop down. You just set the high and low of each side the and the game calculates everything in between. Its use in optional.

Much of this is covered in the manual in great detail. Please do review it.


I did import those two bases. Not sure if theye are part of the package or somebody uploaded them separately.

Anyways, I´ll correct that.

And thx for the explanation regarding the goal / Victory Conditions system. I´ll dive into the manual.


Addendum:
Now I doubt that I did import them. Rather I did them myself and the way it worked in Harpoon 3. Have to learn how to build them in Command.
Vici Supreme
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by Vici Supreme »

JSF, I build the Amari Air Base as a multi-structure build a while ago.
I've never submitted it to the forum. Feel free to give it a try! [;)]

Supreme
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JSF
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by JSF »

Supreme,
ORIGINAL: Supreme 2.0

JSF, I build the Amari Air Base as a multi-structure build a while ago.
I've never submitted it to the forum. Feel free to give it a try! [;)]

Supreme

Thank You very much. I´ll use this one and then rebuild the other base from scratch.
NickD
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by NickD »

Great idea for a scenario. I've been playing with an Icelandic Air Policing scenario, but it's hard to come up with a credible storyline!
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JSF
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by JSF »

ORIGINAL: NickD

Great idea for a scenario. I've been playing with an Icelandic Air Policing scenario, but it's hard to come up with a credible storyline!

Will finish revision_a this weekend, hopefully. Both bases shall work by then and the goals should be correctly modelled via events.


Broncepulido
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by Broncepulido »

Probably inspired in real world and this scenario:
http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.ph ... -scenario/
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JSF
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by JSF »

Hi Enrique,
ORIGINAL: Broncepulido

Probably inspired in real world and this scenario:
http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.ph ... -scenario/

First:
Of course this scenario is inspired "in real world". We are talking about Nato´s Air Policing in the Baltic and not a gamer´s (be it me or you) invention. After all, this is not about "JSF´s air Policing" - and not about Yours, either.

If you had actually installed Command and opened the scenario, you could have read the scenario description, correctly quoted from Wikipedia.

Second:
No, sorry, this is not based on your scenario. As you obviously do not know I have been the scenario writer for GCB2 for years and published several "New Russia" scenarios for it.

Including one dealing with Baltic Air Policing: http://www.gcblue.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1110

And yes,..hawk ...and you know my real name. We playtested our HC scenarios for years.

I have played Harpoon in all PC version for over two decades (and written many scenarios for H2 / H3 / HC), but recently switched to Command. Like Mark did, and many others.

And I am working on my first scenario here, based on my own scenario. No need to dig into Harpoon Classic (and search for inspirations) , though I still like and occasionally play it.

Since I´m a beginner regarding Command, I really appreciate any input on scenario writing.

But we really should not discuss HC here. That is Harpgamer´s world.


Ok?

thx

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JSF
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by JSF »

Ok, revision_a uploaded.

Edited the first message, including attachment of updated file.

Supreme: thx for sharing Amari Airbase!

Now on my way learning how to use the Event Editor thus I can create the goals.

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JSF
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by JSF »

Revision_c uploaded. No revision_b. Skipped it because I planned to make an intermediate step, but in fact made two steps. Hopefully this rev_c is fully playable and close to release.
Tomcat84
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by Tomcat84 »

Couple of things before I actually start playing it:

Description:
- NATINADS is now NATINAMDS for NATO Integrated Air and Missile Defence System to reflect BMD See: http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_8206.htm
- hyperlinks in the description: maybe change them to open in new window so browser opens rather than that it opens inside Command description window?

in the briefing couple of spelling/language nitpicks:
"Tensions in the Baltic have sharply arisen" -> should be have sharply risen ?
"The conflict In the Ukrainian" -> In does not need a capital I
"indicates tath there is something going on" -> that there is something...

In the scenario itself:
-Siauliai AB name is incorrect, it's Siaulia in game, should be Siauliai
-Malbork is missing with Polish MiG-29s and 5 Dutch F-16s (4 ready, 1 spare).
-Canadian Hornets at Siauliai missing? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... e20296776/
-Reserve aircraft all ready in 30 minutes. Intended?
-Polish F-16s maybe have a bit too high serviceability, and also should be based at Lask and/or Poznañ/Krzesiny, not Minsk (which should have MiG-29?)

Hope this helps. Sorry I am nitpicking at all this stuff, but it just means I think it is an interesting scenario with high potential so take it as a compliment haha [:)] [;)]
My Scenarios and Tutorials for Command

(Scenarios focus on air-warfare :) )
Tomcat84
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by Tomcat84 »

And 2 more things:

- The airborne tanker is a KC-135T. That is the special version that was used to refuel the SR-71 Blackbird with JP-7 fuel. A KC-135R would be a more appropriate choice.
- Portugal has 4 F-16B 2-seaters. Having 4 F-16A single seat MLU models would probably also be more realistic.
My Scenarios and Tutorials for Command

(Scenarios focus on air-warfare :) )
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JSF
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by JSF »

Hi Tomcat,

thx for Your hints. Many important details I overlooked.

I´ll include them in the next revision.

Now I´m curious how the scenario runs and if it is a challenge for You.
Tomcat84
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by Tomcat84 »

Just gave it a quick spin.

To be honest, I think the scenario has a number of issues that need work.

- The Russian Mainstays are on an AAW patrol, this means they try to engage NATO aircraft (even though they have no weapons, they try to VID them). You should assign these to support missions instead.
- There is no scoring event for AWACS/Tanker planes. So losing KC-135/E-3 gives no point loss for NATO and likewise killing A-50 gains no points.
- Because almost all NATO forces are loading a reserve loadout (which gives you nothing really) they need 3 hours to be loaded with a real air to air loadout. So this means at the start you only have 4 fighters ready to go
- However, the Russians immediately launch 8 Flankers that immediately head west for my AWACS/Tanker. There is almost nothing to do to protect them except throw in the Portugese 2 ship but that seems a bit much for those to face such odds
- Thats the other thing, the Russians just go west immediately after takeoff, there is no buildup of tension or anything if that makes sense. Maybe with events and posture changes and messages you could make it a more gradual escalation.
- Also, because the Russian AAW patrols do not have prosecution areas and have investigate contacts outside patrol area ticked, all fighter as said just head west after takeoff and the nicely assigned patrol areas are unused.
- Since Russia is not a playable side, there is not necessarily a need to give them points when they kill NATO planes or deduct points when they lose planes. But if there was, you could combine the gaining of points by one side and the losing pf points by the other in one event. So one event with one trigger (e.g. Russian airplane down) and two actions (e.g. NATO gains 10 points, Russia loses 10).
- I was trying to think of a way to build an event to penalize the player for shooting first and starting WW3 but have not thought of a good way yet

I think what would help is if you put some thought in what you want to achieve with the scenario flow, as in, how the buildup should be and how the Russian forces should behave, and then make this work with the event editor and mission editor. Because right now they just go into the grinder without much logic if that makes sense? Scenarios that kind of "tell a story" are always more interesting, does that make sense?

This is not to overly criticize you and make you feel bad, but just to hopefully help you shape this scenario to its full potential! [:)]

Hope this helps and makes sense!
My Scenarios and Tutorials for Command

(Scenarios focus on air-warfare :) )
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comsubpac
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by comsubpac »

The russian mainstay just followed my AWACS into Germany. When you don't launch your fighters you can ignore the russians.
I like the overall setting but the loadout of the NATO fighters makes it impossible to engage the enemy. More then one Russian base might be a good idea.
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JSF
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by JSF »

Hi Tomcat,
ORIGINAL: Tomcat84

Just gave it a quick spin.

To be honest, I think the scenario has a number of issues that need work.

- The Russian Mainstays are on an AAW patrol, this means they try to engage NATO aircraft (even though they have no weapons, they try to VID them). You should assign these to support missions instead.
- There is no scoring event for AWACS/Tanker planes. So losing KC-135/E-3 gives no point loss for NATO and likewise killing A-50 gains no points.
- Because almost all NATO forces are loading a reserve loadout (which gives you nothing really) they need 3 hours to be loaded with a real air to air loadout. So this means at the start you only have 4 fighters ready to go
- However, the Russians immediately launch 8 Flankers that immediately head west for my AWACS/Tanker. There is almost nothing to do to protect them except throw in the Portugese 2 ship but that seems a bit much for those to face such odds
- Thats the other thing, the Russians just go west immediately after takeoff, there is no buildup of tension or anything if that makes sense. Maybe with events and posture changes and messages you could make it a more gradual escalation.
- Also, because the Russian AAW patrols do not have prosecution areas and have investigate contacts outside patrol area ticked, all fighter as said just head west after takeoff and the nicely assigned patrol areas are unused.
- Since Russia is not a playable side, there is not necessarily a need to give them points when they kill NATO planes or deduct points when they lose planes. But if there was, you could combine the gaining of points by one side and the losing pf points by the other in one event. So one event with one trigger (e.g. Russian airplane down) and two actions (e.g. NATO gains 10 points, Russia loses 10).
- I was trying to think of a way to build an event to penalize the player for shooting first and starting WW3 but have not thought of a good way yet

I think what would help is if you put some thought in what you want to achieve with the scenario flow, as in, how the buildup should be and how the Russian forces should behave, and then make this work with the event editor and mission editor. Because right now they just go into the grinder without much logic if that makes sense? Scenarios that kind of "tell a story" are always more interesting, does that make sense?

This is not to overly criticize you and make you feel bad, but just to hopefully help you shape this scenario to its full potential! [:)]

Hope this helps and makes sense!

No problem with Your comments!

This is my first Command scenario and I know I have to learn a lot how to do scenarios in Command. I really appreciate Your comments, they will find their way into rev_d.

Good things need time.

Thanks a lot!
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JSF
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by JSF »

ORIGINAL: comsubpac

The russian mainstay just followed my AWACS into Germany. When you don't launch your fighters you can ignore the russians.
I like the overall setting but the loadout of the NATO fighters makes it impossible to engage the enemy. More then one Russian base might be a good idea.

Thx for Your input. It will find its way in rev_d.
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JSF
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RE: New Russia: Baltic Air policing (2014) - new beta for testing

Post by JSF »

Ok, back working on it.

Got a new PC and lost the file. Luckily I uploaded it here.
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