AKE and Port Ops

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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Justus2
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AKE and Port Ops

Post by Justus2 »

Is there a good way to judge how quickly a port can resupply TFs? I understand how to determine minimum port size (w/NavSpt) or AKE size to see if it can rearm different weapons, but how do I know how many ships/weapons will be rearmed in a day? Will multiple AGs/AKEs help a given port rearm more ships per turn?

i.e. Rabaul is a level 7 port, with 100+ NavSpt. I know it can rearm up to BBs. But can it rearm a TF w/2-3 BBs in one turn? Will adding more AKEs help? I have had occasions when ships don't rearm, but I know the port could handle that size weapon. But I noticed several TFs arrived that turn (ie the Yamato is rearmed, but the DDs in another TF didn't get their DCs rearmed). So I assume the code prioritizes, just trying to get a gauge of how to increase that capacity.
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Chris21wen
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RE: AKE and Port Ops

Post by Chris21wen »

ORIGINAL: Justus2

Is there a good way to judge how quickly a port can resupply TFs? I understand how to determine minimum port size (w/NavSpt) or AKE size to see if it can rearm different weapons, but how do I know how many ships/weapons will be rearmed in a day? Will multiple AGs/AKEs help a given port rearm more ships per turn?

i.e. Rabaul is a level 7 port, with 100+ NavSpt. I know it can rearm up to BBs. But can it rearm a TF w/2-3 BBs in one turn? Will adding more AKEs help? I have had occasions when ships don't rearm, but I know the port could handle that size weapon. But I noticed several TFs arrived that turn (ie the Yamato is rearmed, but the DDs in another TF didn't get their DCs rearmed). So I assume the code prioritizes, just trying to get a gauge of how to increase that capacity.

No easy calculation that I know off. Rearming is a function of port size (level 7 is 5,500 rearm points), naval support (5 per squad) , any Aux (cargo capacity and type) you may have in the port, TF tonnage (can the TF completely dock), weapons load cost, amount/type of ammo and supply.

In a level 7 port with AKE/AE and Naval support I've only ever had problems rearming a TF in one turn if the TF has a number of BBs in it or I try and rearm more than one TF. Anything less than a level 7 and you can start to throw in CA etc.

There is a rearm table in the manual for weapons. Page 284

A recent Beta change also affects rearming.

'Improvements to refueling calculations and processes. Ships are more likely to fuel from bulk oil supplies on oilers/tankers. Also adjusted the refueling and rearming sources for the “from port” and “at sea” variations.

Replenish from Port will now use the available fuel/supply at the port and on all replenishment ships disbanded into the port. For those disbanded into the port, only the fuel/supply cargo of fuel ships, ammo ships, and tenders will be used. Tenders must be of the appropriate type for the ship being replenished. Note that port facilities are used in preference and ships in the port are only used if the port is not able to completely replenish the ships in the TF.'
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RE: AKE and Port Ops

Post by Chris21wen »

Alfred
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RE: AKE and Port Ops

Post by Alfred »

There is no easy answer because there are too many variables involved.  It is not just rearming which is involved here.
 
1.  Ports have an unadjusted rearm level based on their size.  The tables on pages 109, 211 and 239 provide this level.  These tables also provide the daily limits on other stevedoring activities.
 
2.  Each undamaged naval support device adds 5 to the port rearm level.
 
3.  In addition to it's adjusted rearm level, the port also needs to have sufficient supply on hand to pay the rearm cost.  Usually the availability of supply at a port is not a problem. 
 
4.  Tenders can also independently, but not in conjunction with a port, rearm weapons.  Two thresholds apply to tenders:
 
(a) maximum cargo capacity (akin to the port rearm level)
(b) on board supply carried (needed to pay the cost of rearming)
 
5.  The key point which is often overlooked is that rearming also consumes Operation Points.  If a weapon is rearmed from the port, then the port's OP are expended.  If the weapon was instead rearmed from the tender, then the tender's OP was expended.  Depending on how many weapons need to be rearmed and how much ammo is required, it is quite conceivable that the port/tender OP are exhausted for that day and the rearming can only be completed the next day.
 
6.  All TFs at a port, whether they are unloading/loading/refuelling/rearming, are also consuming either port or tender OP (as appropriate).  So a cargo TF can conceivably consume all the port's OP, leaving none to rearm a combat TF.
 
 
Assuming a suitable sized port/tender and the necessary supply are available, the real bottleneck is the OP and the various demands (rearming and non-rearming) placed on it.
 
You might also care to read this thread, in particular my post and hyper link.
 
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3491611&mpage=1&key=rearming&#3496065
 
Alfred  
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Justus2
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RE: AKE and Port Ops

Post by Justus2 »

ORIGINAL: Alfred

There is no easy answer because there are too many variables involved.  It is not just rearming which is involved here.

1.  Ports have an unadjusted rearm level based on their size.  The tables on pages 109, 211 and 239 provide this level.  These tables also provide the daily limits on other stevedoring activities.

2.  Each undamaged naval support device adds 5 to the port rearm level.

3.  In addition to it's adjusted rearm level, the port also needs to have sufficient supply on hand to pay the rearm cost.  Usually the availability of supply at a port is not a problem. 

4.  Tenders can also independently, but not in conjunction with a port, rearm weapons.  Two thresholds apply to tenders:

(a) maximum cargo capacity (akin to the port rearm level)
(b) on board supply carried (needed to pay the cost of rearming)

5.  The key point which is often overlooked is that rearming also consumes Operation Points.  If a weapon is rearmed from the port, then the port's OP are expended.  If the weapon was instead rearmed from the tender, then the tender's OP was expended.  Depending on how many weapons need to be rearmed and how much ammo is required, it is quite conceivable that the port/tender OP are exhausted for that day and the rearming can only be completed the next day.

6.  All TFs at a port, whether they are unloading/loading/refuelling/rearming, are also consuming either port or tender OP (as appropriate).  So a cargo TF can conceivably consume all the port's OP, leaving none to rearm a combat TF.


Assuming a suitable sized port/tender and the necessary supply are available, the real bottleneck is the OP and the various demands (rearming and non-rearming) placed on it.

You might also care to read this thread, in particular my post and hyper link.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3491611&mpage=1&key=rearming&#3496065

Alfred  

Thanks Alfred, I thought I remembered a limitation on the volume of rearm possible in a turn (ie the Op Points), in addition to the level limitation. I did not realize your point #6, though, that loading/unloading consumes the same OP - that was probably my problem, as I was attempting to load a couple transport TFs the same turn I was trying to rearm the combat TFs. Another reason to have some AKEs even in large ports, as the cargo handling won't affect the tender's OP.
Just when I get the hang of a game, I buy two more... :)
Alfred
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RE: AKE and Port Ops

Post by Alfred »

Correct about the merchantmen not affecting the tender's OP, unless of course they too are being rearmed from the tenders.  So having more AKEs present will reduce the bottle neck to some degree but not as much as you probably expect it to.  The reason being that the rearm cost of weapons greater than 8" is a major drain on OPs.  To have anything less than a 1:1 ratio on additional AKE:BB will probably not improve the bottleneck.
 
Bottom line is that the 46cm/45 T94 guns really need a port size 9 for a quick turn around.  Anything less you better be prepared to put everything in a queue to use the left over OP crumbs.
 
Alfred
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