Arleigh Burke Future Loadouts ?

[Swedelicious]

Ah, I see. Thanks!

[Araner]

Is there a database entry for the AMDR radar yet? The difference between various weapon loadouts on the Flight III Burkes are far outweighed by the game-changing capabilities of the AMDR (IMHO...)
The closest I could come to simulating a Flight III Burke was by adding the SPY-3 radar from the cancelled CG-21 to the most recent Flight IIa (USS Truxton). This really wouldnt be the same however, as the AMDR-s is a completely new combat system that replaces the Aegis SPY-XXX. Does anybody know if the Dual Band "Cobra King" radar on the USNS Howard O. Lorenzen is similar to the AMDR-s?

[Rudd]

In response to the OP

This table shows Bryan Clark's proposed changes from the PDF on this page on PDF page 59

[Araner]

The "Distributed Lethality" concept outlined recently on the USNI blog (the forum erases my posts for some reason if I post anything that looks like a URL...) seems to elaborate on the themes introduced by the CSBA Report cited above. It includes a hypothetical scenario for a new "Hunter/Killer SAG" group oriented towards offensive sea control. The example envisions a DDG 1000, an LCS-SSC Mod and a Burke Flight III. Like the CSBA report it cites the urgent need for new long range ASuW and ASW weaponry, but unlike the CSBA it could not make specific recommendations concerning weapons systems before they've gone to bid.
In fact, it was through an effort to model the very same example scenario that led to my earlier question about the AMDR database entry (any thoughts on that btw?)

Initially, my preferred loadout for the Flight III would've been to save the LRASM for high value surface targets like Type 052D Destroyers and to replace the TACTOM cells with the Multi-Mission Upgrade. The land attack-oriented DDG-1000 would retain the TACTOMs to augment its AGS/Railgun and the Medium/Short range needs could be filled by the LCS carrying the Naval Strike Missile and Longbow Hellfire. But then I noticed that in the CSBA report recommendations the Tomahawk had been replaced completely by the LRASM, with its own Multi- Mission variant filling the land attack role.

Why did the Tomahawk fall out of favor so quickly? I know the MMS upgrade would've sacrificed some of the range in order to add the sensor suite, but this still seems like a less costly option than fitting the entire fleet with an entirely new missile. Does anybody have any insights on this?

[jtoatoktoe]

LRASM isn't even a guarantee (though it probably is). The initial order as far as I've heard will only be for air launch variants. In 2017 a full on competition between manufactures will begin with a new Anti Ship Missile being fielded in 2024. LRASM will be in there, Naval Strike Missile for Air Launch will be in there, a new Tomahawk Variant and also maybe the JSOW-ER which Raytheon claims can do what LRASM does but cheaper.

[poaw]

ORIGINAL: Araner

Why did the Tomahawk fall out of favor so quickly? I know the MMS upgrade would've sacrificed some of the range in order to add the sensor suite, but this still seems like a less costly option than fitting the entire fleet with an entirely new missile. Does anybody have any insights on this?

It will have been in service for 50+ years by the time they suggest it should be replaced.

The reason I suspect has to do with the CSBA's tendency to push technically ambitious projections of the future and the equipment required to do so. This is the same organization that suggested the future of naval warfare was railgun equipped submarine cruisers which would surface to fire then dive again, and flying aircraft carriers by 2025.

[DeSade]

ORIGINAL: Araner

The "Distributed Lethality" concept outlined recently on the USNI blog (the forum erases my posts for some reason if I post anything that looks like a URL...) seems to elaborate on the themes introduced by the CSBA Report cited above. It includes a hypothetical scenario for a new "Hunter/Killer SAG" group oriented towards offensive sea control. The example envisions a DDG 1000, an LCS-SSC Mod and a Burke Flight III. Like the CSBA report it cites the urgent need for new long range ASuW and ASW weaponry, but unlike the CSBA it could not make specific recommendations concerning weapons systems before they've gone to bid.

Distributed Lethality is more then just a concept, its current reality. All Navy heavyweights embraced it:

http://breakingdefense.com/2015/01/if-i ... lethality/
http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedin ... -lethality

however offensive arming of combat logistics ships reminds me of early XX-century auxiliary cruisers [:D]

As for future Burke loadout, most interesting and enigmatic imho is future ASW missile - with at least 50nm range. Any ideas who is working on such a stuff?

[Araner]

The only research I am aware of is the Boeing's HAAWC ALA contract (I still can't post links, but Google HAAWC ALA for info), which is basically just an air-deployable Mk54 LWT modified with a standard JDAM kit. It would be hard to imagine a similar mod for a ship launched/VLS version however...
It does show how far they seem to be taking the 'payloads over platforms" concept! The ship launched equivalent of the HAAWC ALA would somehow have to combine a LWT with a relatively common VLS-launched missile... I can't think of anything that could pull that off!

[Araner]

The ship launched equivalent of the HAAWC ALA would somehow have to combine a LWT with a relatively common VLS-launched missile...

Coincidentally, two days after the above-post was published, the CSBA released a report on "The Emerging Era in Undersea Warfare" (posted on another thread that I can't link to) which includes a proposal for a "missile with a CVLWT warhead"... So I guess we're on the right track!

[NakedWeasel]

@DeSade; I remember at least ten years ago a picture of a LR ASW concept; It was a Mk50 AWLT mated to a Tomahawk missile body. IIRC, it could have had a range in excess of 100nm.

[DeSade]

orca found it in DB thread:

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/d ... ctcard.pdf

VLA-ER, its basically VLA with wing kit attached, up to 5x range of basic version [8D]

[hellfish6]

I haven't seen this posted yet (or maybe I have in another thread?) but it's pretty relevant to this thread.

http://csbaonline.org/publications/2014 ... e-warfare/

Commanding the Seas: A Plan to Reinvigorate U.S. Navy Surface Warfare

[DirtyFred]

i found an interesting picture gallery on the subject:
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/cg001/m ... 0.jpg.html

and here a picture of a possible burkeIII:




i believe the Burke IIIs (from 73rd vessel: DDG-123) will replace the Tico's and will be mission-taylored to counter chinese, russian and indian capabilities, also BMD and NSFS.

someone compared the US Navy Arleigh Burke Flight IIA DDG & the PLAN Type 052C DDG



https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/us-nav ... ost-220650



but do not forget budget cuts and possible budget sequestration... limiting new weapon systems, there will be also recycling of used ship systems to save costs.