Quick Turnaround?

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mikmykWS
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:34 pm

Quick Turnaround?

Post by mikmykWS »

Hi guys

Quick Turnaround was our response to a many user requests for ready time exceptions for aircraft or air forces that can generated quicker in certain load-outs.

We do alright with this?

Mike
deepdive
Posts: 125
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RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by deepdive »

I think it is great, thanks [&o] only i would suggest that it includes strike planes and heavy bombers.

Newer/simpler Fighters; 3 quick turnarounds, 20 minutes ready time, 3 hour down time
Older/complex Figthers; 2 quick turnarounds, 30 minutes ready time, 5 hour down time
CAS; 3 quick turnarounds, 40 minutes ready time, 3 hour down time
Strike; 2 quick turnarounds, 2 hours ready time, 12 hour down time
Bombers; 1 quick turnaround, 6 hours ready time, 24 hour down time

This might be too much to ask, thanks anyway.

Bjørn
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Dide
Posts: 177
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Location: Italy

RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by Dide »

+1 for deepdive, and it will be perfect!
jarraya
Posts: 339
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RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by jarraya »

It's a great thing!

nocacounsel
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RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by nocacounsel »

Also +1 for Deepdive, but it is wonderful even as it is!
Coiler12
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RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by Coiler12 »

ORIGINAL: deepdive

I think it is great, thanks [&o] only i would suggest that it includes strike planes and heavy bombers.

Newer/simpler Fighters; 3 quick turnarounds, 20 minutes ready time, 3 hour down time
Older/complex Figthers; 2 quick turnarounds, 30 minutes ready time, 5 hour down time
CAS; 3 quick turnarounds, 40 minutes ready time, 3 hour down time
Strike; 2 quick turnarounds, 2 hours ready time, 12 hour down time
Bombers; 1 quick turnaround, 6 hours ready time, 24 hour down time

This might be too much to ask, thanks anyway.

Bjørn

I have to rain on deepdive's parade here. Just saying "but it would be fun" without providing historical evidence for that isn't really matching Command. I'd like novelty Mach 8 superfighters that only exist as Deviantart drawings, but the devs have politely declined. [:'(]

Compared to the exhaustive examples of sortie rates used for 1.06, let me look at what deepdive's proposals would mean.

-With the CAS loadout you get as many as six sorties a day (and that's assuming no night capability), higher even than Operation Moked. Squeeze in one night sortie, and that's seven.
-Fighters-could anyone seriously take off, land, and even with short-ranged point intercepts, scramble fifteen times throughout the day and night? Even do half that? Highly doubtful.
-Heavy bombers? The average sortie rate for the entire B-52 force, across all eight years of air war in Vietnam, translates to 42.4 a day-spread across many bombers. Speaking of Vietnam, the entire massive contingent of American fighter/bombers there frequently only managed one package a day over the north in good conditions.
-"Strike"-which can mean anything from WWII propeller planes to F-22s with GPS-guided bombs, in so many profiles-two hours? Boy, those must be some fast-talking briefing officers.
-Even in purely gameplay terms, if "strike" means "naval strike", we're back to caffeinated Harpoon/Exocet launchers munchkining the enemy out of defensive missiles. Not as bad as a thirty-minute for everything mechanic, but still unrealistic and overpowered.

If you want to just goof around (no harm in that [:'(] ) and make the ready times artificially faster, you can do that in the scenario editor already (I've certainly done that more than a few times). But for actually playing scenarios, deepdive's proposal would be unrealistic and unbalanced.
Meroka37
Posts: 268
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:12 am

RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by Meroka37 »

ORIGINAL: deepdive

I think it is great, thanks [&o] only i would suggest that it includes strike planes and heavy bombers.

Newer/simpler Fighters; 3 quick turnarounds, 20 minutes ready time, 3 hour down time
Older/complex Figthers; 2 quick turnarounds, 30 minutes ready time, 5 hour down time
CAS; 3 quick turnarounds, 40 minutes ready time, 3 hour down time
Strike; 2 quick turnarounds, 2 hours ready time, 12 hour down time
Bombers; 1 quick turnaround, 6 hours ready time, 24 hour down time

This might be too much to ask, thanks anyway.

Bjørn

Maybe it is abusing of the Devs kindly will to please players, but what if the scenario writer can define the turnaround cycle at time of editing?
'Better honor without ships, than ships without honor"
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Sardaukar
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RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by Sardaukar »

ORIGINAL: Meroka37
ORIGINAL: deepdive

I think it is great, thanks [&o] only i would suggest that it includes strike planes and heavy bombers.

Newer/simpler Fighters; 3 quick turnarounds, 20 minutes ready time, 3 hour down time
Older/complex Figthers; 2 quick turnarounds, 30 minutes ready time, 5 hour down time
CAS; 3 quick turnarounds, 40 minutes ready time, 3 hour down time
Strike; 2 quick turnarounds, 2 hours ready time, 12 hour down time
Bombers; 1 quick turnaround, 6 hours ready time, 24 hour down time

This might be too much to ask, thanks anyway.

Bjørn

Maybe it is abusing of the Devs kindly will to please players, but what if the scenario writer can define the turnaround cycle at time of editing?

Oooh..that'd be nice!
"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-

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mikmykWS
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:34 pm

RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by mikmykWS »

Will add editing these to our list but probably won't get to it for some time.

Personally agree with Coiler about deepdives values. They don't jive with any data I've seen so guessing he just wants shorter times. Don't we all but the data doesn't support it.

So thats a big ole -1 from me.

Thanks!

Mike
DeSade
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RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by DeSade »

For me generally its great idea, but I noticed one side effect - for the old scenarios it defaults to "enable", which I'm pretty sure was not foreseen by scenario authors. For example classic Deter, Detect, Defend balance rely heavily on limited availability of fighters. With this option enabled by default that balance is changed toward too easy imho.

So my suggestion is leaving it as "disabled" for all scenarios which don't have "enable" flag explicitly set.
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hellfish6
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RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by hellfish6 »

I really like 'em. Feels like I get to kick an air wing officer in the pants.
FlyingBear
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RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by FlyingBear »

In my view this feature works great.
Dannyp19
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RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by Dannyp19 »

ORIGINAL: FlyingBear

In my view this feature works great.


+1
RobotCriminal
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RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by RobotCriminal »

ORIGINAL: FlyingBear

In my view this feature works great.

+2

The idea that you need to make a trade off (fast turn-around vs sustained ops) makes for good gameplay IMO.
jarraya
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:04 pm

RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by jarraya »

Is the issue that a lot of the scenarios out there are hours, rather than days, long? I find that in a 24 hour scenario turnrounds feel very long. I am experimenting with slightly longer scenarios and it feels more "realistic", with a/c flying two or three sorties a day, which means that missions are being planned, pilots are being debriefed, maintenance carried out, etc.

Just a thought, but maybe designers should think of longer time for their scenarios where a lot of flying is required? Would like to hear thoughts.
magi
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RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by magi »

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Will add editing these to our list but probably won't get to it for some time.

Personally agree with Coiler about deepdives values. They don't jive with any data I've seen so guessing he just wants shorter times. Don't we all but the data doesn't support it.

So thats a big ole -1 from me.

Thanks!

Mike

I'm with Mike and Coiler..... I would like to see command as an honest a simulator as possible....... However I realize a lot of people enjoy playing it as a game and that is very cool…
Once again I see in the future that there will be different gameplay mode choices that could be made available to the player…... So players in the community can choose between realism and go have a fun brawl…
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Jabbman
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RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by Jabbman »

I think this works well. The only way it could be improved would be to look at specific aircraft (and loadouts) and adjust their turnaround & downtime, some aircraft were/are more prone to maintenance issues and required more man-hours of work between sorties. This, however would require a shed load of modification and difficult research into each type, so understandably could not really be expected!
mikmykWS
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:34 pm

RE: Quick Turnaround?

Post by mikmykWS »

Well hopefully there is no issue now for the majority of players as implementing QT came from many user requests. If we see the same we'll adjust.

Thanks

Mike

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