Planes set to Naval Attack performing Airfield Attack?

[rev rico]

This is really weird.
In two separate occasions this turn Vals which were only set to Naval Attack attacked an airfield! It also happened last turn but I figured it was an anomaly. Both times they went in without escort and were chewed up by CAP and flak. [:@] All the Kates were set to secondary airfield attack and Zeroes to escort, but NOT the Vals.
What is happening?

Thanks
Bob

[jeffk3510]

Was their secondary attack set to airfield attack?

[Alfred]

We're not mind readers so screen shots please.
 
1.  Which patch are you playing under.  There was an early bug when prior usage was not cleared from memory.
2.  Unit screenshot.  Need to see the actual variables set by the player.
3.  Extract of relevant combat report.  Timing and other details of the mission flown are relevant.
 
Alfred

[HansBolter]

Sometimes units just ignore orders and do what the tactical commander pleases.

I have P38s set to Escort with a Cap percentage of 50% and a Rest percentage of 50%.

Technically they should NOT be flying escort missions, but turn after turn at least 3 of the 25 airframes in the squadron disobey orders and fly escort missions.

[btd64]

Two words, "Commanders Discretion"....GP

[rev rico]

Not secondary mission given.
1. Patch is most recent (Aug 14). RA6 PBEM
2. coming soon
3. Combat report of pertinent attacks by Vals after PM Zero + Kate attacks
--------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Portland Roads , at 91,132

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 111 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 41 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D3A1 Val x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 5 damaged
D3A1 Val: 4 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Portland Roads , at 91,132

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D3A1 Val x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 8 damaged
D3A1 Val: 4 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Carnarvon , at 49,133

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D3A1 Val x 12

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 10 damaged
D3A1 Val: 2 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x D3A1 Val releasing from 10000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
49th FG/8th FS with P-40E Warhawk (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 16600 , scrambling fighters to 20000.
Raid is overhead



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Portland Roads , at 91,132

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 71 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D3A1 Val x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 8 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Portland Roads , at 91,132

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 106 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 39 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D3A1 Val x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 7 damaged
D3A1 Val: 2 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

[rev rico]

Screen capture of one of the guilty Val units

[Alfred]

1.  Where are the rest of the Hiryu-2 subunits located and what missions do they have?
 
2.  The CR showed attacks on Portland Roads and Carnarvon but only one unit's screenshot was provided.
 
3.  The CR displays a naval attack, it doesn't state an airfield attack was in progress.
 
4.  The secondary mission is left blank.  That is not exactly the same as telling it to rest.
 
 
(a)  This might be a bug in as much as the old non clearance of memory may have remanifested itself.
 
(b)  It could also be that it is thinking it is attacking a naval TF, hence why the CR info of being on naval attack rather than port or airfield.  What did the combat animation display; airfield/port/TF under attack?  Also what exactly inflicted the damage on the Vals.  Only in 1 out of the 5 combats was there any CAP.
 
 
 
Or it could be something else but on the data presented to date, that would be mere speculation.  Ultimately michaelm will need a saved game to look into the code itself.
 
Alfred

[rev rico]

Alfred
1. one is aboard the Hiryu and is exactly the same set up
2. because they're all set the same
3. here's one
Afternoon Air attack on Portland Roads , at 91,132

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 117 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 49 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 113
B5N2 Kate x 153

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 5 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
P-38E Lightning: 72 damaged
P-38E Lightning: 2 destroyed on ground
Hudson III (LR): 5 damaged
Hudson III (LR): 1 destroyed on ground
P-40E Warhawk: 7 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 1 damaged

Allied ground losses:
22 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 15
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 18

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
10 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
22 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
20 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
24 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
24 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
21 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
21 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

here's the other
Afternoon Air attack on Carnarvon , at 49,133

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 117 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 49 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 57
B5N2 Kate x 87

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IA x 4
P-40E Warhawk x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 12 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed on ground
PBY-5A Catalina: 1 destroyed on ground

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
6 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
6 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
15 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
11 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
10 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
8 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
No.77 Sqn RAAF with Kittyhawk IA (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes
49th FG/8th FS with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16600 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 14 minutes
8th FG/80th FS with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes


Both were before all Val strikes

4. Urgh, yep, that might be it. I've been playing this game for 5 years and never had to actually press the REST button to guarantee they don't do anything in the PM as a secondary mission
a. possible
b. Carnarvon had no ships present. Portland Roads might have had PT boats. Either way they were clearly bombing airfields and were shot down by ground based flak.

That's all the details.

Thanks for your time
Bob

[Alfred]

The Kates are definitely conducting an afternoon airfield attack.  That is not the case with the Vals where there seems to be some "crossed wires".  Why that is so is the $64 question whose answer will need to come from michaelm looking at the saved game.
 
Here are some possible reasons why the crossed wires has arisen.
 
1.  When you split the Vals into 3 sub groups, mission memory of the parent was not cleared.  IOW pre split, the parent did have a secondary mission specified, perhaps port or airfield attack.
 
2.  Again related to the split, maybe the code has a glitch that carrier units embarked on a CV when split must have the "rest" option selected to ensure no secondary mission is flown.
 
3.  Another possibility could be that at Portland Roads it thought originally it was striking an enemy TF but when the VALs arrived the TF was comprised only of PTs.
 
4.  There might be a glitch with the auto target routine.
 
Alfred

[Barb]

Most probably a minor "bug" - as orders for the PM phase are set to "null", they somehow get interpreted by the code as "Option 1 - Airfield Attack" and not "Option 0 - Rest". In computing "null" is quite different from the value "0".
I propose giving all units valid secondary orders from the list.

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: Barb
Most probably a minor "bug" - as orders for the PM phase are set to "null", they somehow get interpreted by the code as "Option 1 - Airfield Attack" and not "Option 0 - Rest". In computing "null" is quite different from the value "0".
I propose giving all units valid secondary orders from the list.

I think the issue is in fact that the unit doesn't actually have the rest mission. At some point perhaps something got corrupted with the secondary mission. This happened to me as well (I'm opponent in this game):



Normally it should show rest as being green. The fact that it is not green tells me that the secondary mission is not rest, its a null mission. I think it can be solved by simply setting the secondary mission to rest. But since it lost that mission once (I presume it was set to rest) the next question is whether it will happen again without notice?

[Trugrit]

This is a minor bug that only occurs with some air groups.

Bombers on naval attack default to secondary mission airfield attack.
Your bomber has defaulted to airfield attack but that does not show on your group screen.

You can see this in the Guadalcanal scenario.

Set your game to head to head. Select the Guadalcanal scenario and start the game.

At Tulagi select the A6M2-NRufe Float plane group. Set it to naval attack.
The secondary mission will be null.

Flip the primary mission to naval search and then flip back to naval attack and it
Will show rest as default which is what float planes default to on naval attack.

I thought the bug was just in the Guad scenario.

[Yaab]

With the unit leader's air skill of 37, will they ever fly?

[rev rico]

All this NULL mission talk makes sense. I will make sure it doesn't happen again!

Thanks all for providing some clarity.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: rev rico

Screen capture of one of the guilty Val units

you've got your squadron on naval attack for primary but you should also set them to REST as secondary