[IMPROVEMENTS B742] Sa-N-1b,Sa-N-3a and Sa-N-4a vs AntiShipMissiles

[Triode]

Currently in game Sa-N-1b,Sa-N-3a and Sa-N-4a is very ineffective against AShM, PH is too low ,but:

from "Historical Sketches of Captain 1st Rank Vladimir Kirillovich Pechatnikov" (former officer from Office of missile and artillery weapons of the Navy) citation:

"Predicted of the development of air attack (a possible reduction in altitude) in 1974 to obtain reliable confirmation (coded message from Washington, addressed to all members of the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee and signed "resident GRU") of the early development of the US cruise anti-ship missiles flying at extremely low heights (3-5 meters above the waves). Of course, the first reaction: can not be. But as we get more and more new evidence began to mount tension. Finally, the inability to deal effectively with similar targets for in service ships SAM was revealed in the course of large-scale exercise "Proba-77." The exercise involved:
- BPK Project 1134 "Kerch" with a set of "Shtorm"(#1910 - BPK Kara [Pr.1134B Berkut B] in database)
- BPK Project 61 "Soobrazitelnyy" with a set of "Volna-M" and "Smelyy" with a set of "Volna-P"(#1007 - BPK Kashin [Pr.61] in database)
- MPK project 1124 with a set of "Osa-M".(#51 - MPK Grisha I [Pr.1124.1 Albatros] in database)

For exercise was allocated 20 target missiles RM-15M, with modified radio altimeter to fly at low altitudes . In practice, because of the spread of aerodynamic characteristics flight altitude of targets was 8-11 meters.
The results were disappointing. Complexes designed to combat enemy aircraft and confident enough to shoot down missiles flying at an altitude of 100 meters, proved ineffective against low-flying targets (NLTS). Of course, because they were developed as anti-planes, and the lower boundary of the kill zone was 100 meters (for "Osa-M" - 50).
Exercise "Proba-77" fully answered - the probability of hit a missile, flying at extremely low altitude, for different complexes is in the range of 0.12 - 0.17."

RM-15M is target based on P-15M AShM

So in 1977 PH for Sa-N-1b,Sa-N-3a and Sa-N-4a against target flying at 8-11 m and size of P-15M lies in range of 12-17%

In game it is something like:

14:31:33 - Weapon: SA-N-1b Goa [M-1M/P Volna-M/P, 4K91 / V-601] #13 is attacking SS-N-2c Improved Styx [P-15M] #10 with a base PH of 40%. Sea-skimmer modifier: -15,81%. Target speed modifier: -8%. Target signature modifier: -23%. Final PH: 1%. Die Roll: 53 - MISS

or

14:33:44 - Weapon: SA-N-3a Goblet [4K60] #17 is attacking SS-N-2c Improved Styx [P-15M] #16 with a base PH of 50%. Sea-skimmer modifier: -15,81%. Target speed modifier: -7%. Target signature modifier: -23%. Final PH: 4%. Die Roll: 70 - MISS

or

14:40:13 - Weapon: SA-N-4a Gecko [9M33] #37 is attacking SS-N-2c Improved Styx [P-15M] #30 with a base PH of 55%. Sea-skimmer modifier: -15,81%. Target speed modifier: -10%. Target signature modifier: -23%. Final PH: 6%. Die Roll: 72 - MISS

And this is against P-15M on 50 m altitude

So, why PH so low? Possible there is some reason that I do not see?

[Dimitris]

So, 1% vs 12% for SA-N-1b, 4% vs 14-15% for SA-N-3a and 6% vs 17% for SA-N-4a. I'd say we guesstimated pretty close. Maybe need to raise the signature of the P-15M a little bit as it's not quite in the same class as Harpoon or Exocet.

[CV60]

Good info. Thanks for sharing.

So in 1977 PH for Sa-N-1b,Sa-N-3a and Sa-N-4a against target flying at 8-11 m and size of P-15M lies in range of 12-17%

[Triode]

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

Maybe need to raise the signature of the P-15M a little bit as it's not quite in the same class as Harpoon or Exocet.

Hmm it seems I not quite clearly expressed my thoughts

In "Proba-77" exercise Soviet Navy shot down not P-15M flying at 50 m but RM-15M flying at 8-11 m

P-15M flying at 50 m have Sea-skimmer modifier: -15,81% ,as example RGM-84C Harpoon IB flying at 9 m have Sea-skimmer modifier: -30,48%

So "reconstructed" profile for RM-15M looks like: Sea-skimmer modifier: -30,48% ( from Harpoon flying at similar altitude)and Target signature modifier: -23% (from P-15M signature), is that correct assumption ?

If so "raise the signature a little bit" may not work, for Sa-N-1b base PH is 40% so to achieve PH 12% you will need remove completely Target signature modifier , and still this not enough

My suggestion is to achieve "12% for SA-N-1b, 14-15% for SA-N-3a and 17% for SA-N-4a." :
-reduce Target signature modifier for all based on P-15 airframe missiles to -10%
-for Sa-N-1b and Sa-N-3a raise base PH up to 60%
-for Sa-N-4a raise base PH to 67%


Of course this advise is from my limited perspective,maybe you have other ways to solve this problem

P.S. almost want to ask mikmyk to add RM-15M in database [:)]
but well it is alredy to long queue of requests

[Primarchx]

Tests are also often run under ideal conditions. This is nice data, but it only represents one test.

[mikmykWS]

P.S. almost want to ask mikmyk to add RM-15M in database
but well it is alredy to long queue of requests

Added to our list.

M