OT As Christmas Approaches...

[Greybriar]

With both my parents gone, I figured my siblings and I wouldn't see one another again for the holidays. But I was pleasantly surprised when one of my sisters began hosting Thanksgiving and Christmas get-togethers at her home. That's where I will be tomorrow and I am looking forward to seeing them again.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

I often wonder when you teach your children there is an easter bunny, a tooth fairy and a Santa Claus how you can expect them to believe in this Christ. They are all old stories from the past that created them. After revealing a lie 3 times told about the bunny and fairy and Santa Claus (hope no small children can read)I often wonder how you can expect them to believe you again? This part of life amazes me to some extent.

warspite1

That's an interesting viewpoint - I'd never thought of it like that [&o]

There was a story in the papers recently where a woman, now in her 30's, suffers from depression every Christmas since - at the age of 10 - she found out that Santa was not real....

I cannot speak for myself as I do not recall my parents making a big thing of Father Christmas, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.

However we have been religious about ensuring my little warspites know of all three - and all the rituals that go with them.

Now, as they get older, so they no longer draw pictures for the tooth fairy, they no longer believe the Easter Bunny gives them chocolate eggs, (but they still put food and drink out for a Father Christmas they know does not exist).

But in going through that phase from unquestioning belief, to "is this real?" to "no its all made up" they have never questioned why their parents "lied" to them. They are baptised and confirmed into the Church but neither have questioned - at this stage - whether God exists or that "you lied about the other stuff, why should I believe you about God?".

So, so far all good.

[tcarusil]

While Christmas time may have many negatives that have become attached to it, remember in the end it is what you make of it. Enjoy the time in your own way and don't let those who have lost its meaning discourage you.

TomC

[MrsWargamer]

ORIGINAL: JW

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Sometimes I seriously wonder how some of you can even manage to accomplish any real measure of potential for challenge as an opponent with such lack luster capacity to reason out a comment.

Ok Santa does NOT come to all of the boys and girls of the world, even though that's part of the whole silly notion. Christmas is not an event to the greater majority of the global population to begin with. If you consider China and India basically not Christian populations and that is 2/3 of humanity right there eh.

Santa is after all predominantly a Christian obsession. And yes, we all know, just about the entire event is originally of pagan origins.

They call it Christmas, and I bet most actually DO think Christ was born on December 25th. But considering what mainstream Christianity actually does believe in, nothing shocks me any more

But then, most also probably expect Christ looks Caucasian as well.

The entire Christian event is almost entirely a fabrication. Sometimes I find myself wanting to do repeated facepalms when I hear of people getting so upset over the way the Christian event of Christmas is being treated. But really, it's as Christian as any other day of the year. The day was picked for only one reason, to usurp a pagan event, and steal it for their own.

I'm not Christian, but, I don't have any issues with them picking the 25th to make their fuss over him.
I do think it's kinda funny though, how easily people become Christian, the moment they're told that they have to work that day Then suddenly their work is impinging on their god given rights

It's also kinda sad the other religions can't justify days off of work. But I suppose if you satisfied all of them, no one would ever get anything done Google often has all sorts of reasons why a day should me remembered for some special reason

Well, you certainly took this thread to a low point.

Was not my intent, but Warspite doesn't seem to endure being wrong well
Which is essentially his cross to bear.

Nice as the chat is though, I have tarts to bake, cookies to bake and baking in general to do
Because regardless of the justifications, people expect a nice meal to appear on the 25th, and I enjoy eating it too

And remember, the reason for the season is actually axial tilt

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

ORIGINAL: JW

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Sometimes I seriously wonder how some of you can even manage to accomplish any real measure of potential for challenge as an opponent with such lack luster capacity to reason out a comment.

Ok Santa does NOT come to all of the boys and girls of the world, even though that's part of the whole silly notion. Christmas is not an event to the greater majority of the global population to begin with. If you consider China and India basically not Christian populations and that is 2/3 of humanity right there eh.

Santa is after all predominantly a Christian obsession. And yes, we all know, just about the entire event is originally of pagan origins.

They call it Christmas, and I bet most actually DO think Christ was born on December 25th. But considering what mainstream Christianity actually does believe in, nothing shocks me any more

But then, most also probably expect Christ looks Caucasian as well.

The entire Christian event is almost entirely a fabrication. Sometimes I find myself wanting to do repeated facepalms when I hear of people getting so upset over the way the Christian event of Christmas is being treated. But really, it's as Christian as any other day of the year. The day was picked for only one reason, to usurp a pagan event, and steal it for their own.

I'm not Christian, but, I don't have any issues with them picking the 25th to make their fuss over him.
I do think it's kinda funny though, how easily people become Christian, the moment they're told that they have to work that day Then suddenly their work is impinging on their god given rights

It's also kinda sad the other religions can't justify days off of work. But I suppose if you satisfied all of them, no one would ever get anything done Google often has all sorts of reasons why a day should me remembered for some special reason

Well, you certainly took this thread to a low point.

Was not my intent, but Warspite doesn't seem to endure being wrong well
Which is essentially his cross to bear.

Nice as the chat is though, I have tarts to bake, cookies to bake and baking in general to do
Because regardless of the justifications, people expect a nice meal to appear on the 25th, and I enjoy eating it too

And remember, the reason for the season is actually axial tilt

warspite1

Au contraire dear. I am often wrong, about a lot of things too, so I am quite used to the feeling.

However, I am at a total loss to understand what on earth you are waffling on about.

You said, and I quote, "more of this planet is NOT Christian than Christian and as such, it's again, a pointless event".

That comment is about as nonsensical as its possible to get. Because your average Chinese or Mongolian or Japanese or Indian or whatever are not Christian, you say Christmas is a pointless event.

Right.....

[nate25]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

ORIGINAL: JW




Well, you certainly took this thread to a low point.

Was not my intent, but Warspite doesn't seem to endure being wrong well
Which is essentially his cross to bear.

Nice as the chat is though, I have tarts to bake, cookies to bake and baking in general to do
Because regardless of the justifications, people expect a nice meal to appear on the 25th, and I enjoy eating it too

And remember, the reason for the season is actually axial tilt

warspite1

Au contraire dear. I am often wrong, about a lot of things too, so I am quite used to the feeling.

However, I am at a total loss to understand what on earth you are waffling on about.

You said, and I quote, "more of this planet is NOT Christian than Christian and as such, it's again, a pointless event".

That comment is about as nonsensical as its possible to get. Because your average Chinese or Mongolian or Japanese or Indian or whatever are not Christian, you say Christmas is a pointless event.

Right.....

Not sure why you folks even reply to this troll....

just gives credence to statements that otherwise have none.

Cheers,
Nate

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: nate25

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer




Was not my intent, but Warspite doesn't seem to endure being wrong well
Which is essentially his cross to bear.

Nice as the chat is though, I have tarts to bake, cookies to bake and baking in general to do
Because regardless of the justifications, people expect a nice meal to appear on the 25th, and I enjoy eating it too

And remember, the reason for the season is actually axial tilt

warspite1

Au contraire dear. I am often wrong, about a lot of things too, so I am quite used to the feeling.

However, I am at a total loss to understand what on earth you are waffling on about.

You said, and I quote, "more of this planet is NOT Christian than Christian and as such, it's again, a pointless event".

That comment is about as nonsensical as its possible to get. Because your average Chinese or Mongolian or Japanese or Indian or whatever are not Christian, you say Christmas is a pointless event.

Right.....

Not sure why you folks even reply to this troll....

just gives credence to statements that otherwise have none.

Cheers,
Nate

warspite1

Natester's back!

How are doing old chap? Whatcha been doin'?

[nate25]

Enjoying a day off. Thanks for asking.

Hope you all are well and ready for Christmas or Hanukkah or ....

Cheers, Nate

[Lecivius]

My family is gone, to cancer.
My friends are gone, to a host of things in life.
I have a wife, and a son. My rock, and my anchor.
I have no religion in me anymore.

All this spouting off about Christmas is just that. Christmas is not the holiday, or the shopping, or any such pap. It's an idea. MrsWargamer, and those like him/her, missed the boat entirely. So go enjoy your dinner. I will be doing a party downtown at a school for homeless kids tonight.

I have this hanging in my office. I wish we could all live up to it.

I shall pass through this world but once! Any good thing, therefore, that I can do or any kindness that I can show to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.

Supposedly by Stephen Grellet, but who cares. Just like Christmas, it's the thought that counts.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I shall pass through this world but once! Any good thing, therefore, that I can do or any kindness that I can show to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.

warspite1

Nice [:)]

[Zap]

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Sometimes I seriously wonder how some of you can even manage to accomplish any real measure of potential for challenge as an opponent with such lack luster capacity to reason out a comment.

Ok Santa does NOT come to all of the boys and girls of the world, even though that's part of the whole silly notion. Christmas is not an event to the greater majority of the global population to begin with. If you consider China and India basically not Christian populations and that is 2/3 of humanity right there eh.

Santa is after all predominantly a Christian obsession. And yes, we all know, just about the entire event is originally of pagan origins.

They call it Christmas, and I bet most actually DO think Christ was born on December 25th. But considering what mainstream Christianity actually does believe in, nothing shocks me any more

But then, most also probably expect Christ looks Caucasian as well.

The entire Christian event is almost entirely a fabrication. Sometimes I find myself wanting to do repeated facepalms when I hear of people getting so upset over the way the Christian event of Christmas is being treated. But really, it's as Christian as any other day of the year. The day was picked for only one reason, to usurp a pagan event, and steal it for their own.

I'm not Christian, but, I don't have any issues with them picking the 25th to make their fuss over him.
I do think it's kinda funny though, how easily people become Christian, the moment they're told that they have to work that day Then suddenly their work is impinging on their god given rights

It's also kinda sad the other religions can't justify days off of work. But I suppose if you satisfied all of them, no one would ever get anything done Google often has all sorts of reasons why a day should me remembered for some special reason

And your so misinformed.

1 Santa Claus is a harmless distortion of the real (proven to exist) Saint Nicholas Bishop of Sweden who brought gifts to children. When Swedish immigrants came to the US that tradition caught on here. It was secular society who had a hard time with equating gift giving at Christmas with a Saint of the Catholic Church. Since the practice was so prevalent. It was more digestible to change Saint Nicholas with a jolly old man. And then the rest of the fantasy has been added.

2 And no most Christians' believe Jesus was Jewish descent. Whatever that looks like!

3 And there is nothing pagan about the birth of Christ. Christ came into the world when he came into it. The exact date is not recorded. But it is most probably somewhere near December according to calculations of events in the gospel.
But you have a problem with Christianity, as you say, "Christianity is mostly fabricated". Of course your disdain for Christianity is typical of many atheist who find sport in mocking Christian belief. The problem is your guessing what Christians do believe.

4 The predominate religion in the Us and much of Europe is Christian. I see no problem in taking that historical event and setting aside a time to reflect on it as a nation. I mean what other event in history has had so much good come from it? The message of jesus rings clear throughout history. Love even your enemies. We celebrate Jesus not what some people who may distort his message may do.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

My family is gone, to cancer.
My friends are gone, to a host of things in life.
I have a wife, and a son. My rock, and my anchor.
I have no religion in me anymore.

All this spouting off about Christmas is just that. Christmas is not the holiday, or the shopping, or any such pap. It's an idea. MrsWargamer, and those like him/her, missed the boat entirely. So go enjoy your dinner. I will be doing a party downtown at a school for homeless kids tonight.

I have this hanging in my office. I wish we could all live up to it.

I shall pass through this world but once! Any good thing, therefore, that I can do or any kindness that I can show to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.

Supposedly by Stephen Grellet, but who cares. Just like Christmas, it's the thought that counts.

Well said.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: Zap

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Sometimes I seriously wonder how some of you can even manage to accomplish any real measure of potential for challenge as an opponent with such lack luster capacity to reason out a comment.

Ok Santa does NOT come to all of the boys and girls of the world, even though that's part of the whole silly notion. Christmas is not an event to the greater majority of the global population to begin with. If you consider China and India basically not Christian populations and that is 2/3 of humanity right there eh.

Santa is after all predominantly a Christian obsession. And yes, we all know, just about the entire event is originally of pagan origins.

They call it Christmas, and I bet most actually DO think Christ was born on December 25th. But considering what mainstream Christianity actually does believe in, nothing shocks me any more

But then, most also probably expect Christ looks Caucasian as well.

The entire Christian event is almost entirely a fabrication. Sometimes I find myself wanting to do repeated facepalms when I hear of people getting so upset over the way the Christian event of Christmas is being treated. But really, it's as Christian as any other day of the year. The day was picked for only one reason, to usurp a pagan event, and steal it for their own.

I'm not Christian, but, I don't have any issues with them picking the 25th to make their fuss over him.
I do think it's kinda funny though, how easily people become Christian, the moment they're told that they have to work that day Then suddenly their work is impinging on their god given rights

It's also kinda sad the other religions can't justify days off of work. But I suppose if you satisfied all of them, no one would ever get anything done Google often has all sorts of reasons why a day should me remembered for some special reason

And your so misinformed.

1 Santa Claus is a harmless distortion of the real (proven to exist) Saint Nicholas Bishop of Sweden who brought gifts to children. When Swedish immigrants came to the US that tradition caught on here. It was secular society who had a hard time with equating gift giving at Christmas with a Saint of the Catholic Church. Since the practice was so prevalent. It was more digestible to change Saint Nicholas with a jolly old man. And then the rest of the fantasy has been added.

2 And no most Christians' believe Jesus was Jewish descent. Whatever that looks like!

3 And there is nothing pagan about the birth of Christ. Christ came into the world when he came into it. The exact date is not recorded. But it is most probably somewhere near December according to calculations of events in the gospel.
But you have a problem with Christianity, as you say, "Christianity is mostly fabricated". Of course your disdain for Christianity is typical of many atheist who find sport in mocking Christian belief. The problem is your guessing what Christians do believe.

4 The predominate religion in the Us and much of Europe is Christian. I see no problem in taking that historical event and setting aside a time to reflect on it as a nation. I mean what other event in history has had so much good come from it? The message of jesus rings clear throughout history. Love even your enemies. We celebrate Jesus not what some people who may distort his message may do.

Well stated. But wasted on the person quoted I fear.

[aaatoysandmore]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: nate25

ORIGINAL: warspite1

warspite1

Au contraire dear. I am often wrong, about a lot of things too, so I am quite used to the feeling.

However, I am at a total loss to understand what on earth you are waffling on about.

You said, and I quote, "more of this planet is NOT Christian than Christian and as such, it's again, a pointless event".

That comment is about as nonsensical as its possible to get. Because your average Chinese or Mongolian or Japanese or Indian or whatever are not Christian, you say Christmas is a pointless event.

Right.....

Not sure why you folks even reply to this troll....

just gives credence to statements that otherwise have none.

Cheers,
Nate

warspite1

Natester's back!

How are doing old chap? Whatcha been doin'?

Cmon now no name calling. We're all good friends here with certainly differences of opinion. I don't question the REASON for the holiday I question the commercialism they have put into it. So, I can see MrsWargamers point to some extent. We're celebrating Saint Nicholas more than the birth of Christ. Or so it seems.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore
We're celebrating Saint Nicholas more than the birth of Christ. Or so it seems.

No *we* aren't, mate. If *you* are, then so be it-I hope your celebration of Saint Nicholas brings you and / or your family happiness.

My family (and most Christians I know personally) are very cognizant of (and lament) the commercialism of Christmas, yet mindful of the real reason for the celebration. The birth of our lord Jesus Christ.

I enjoy the time with my family and my children on Christmas and try not to let the myopic and targeted ill will of militant proselytizing atheists / agnostics / trolls detract from this day. Those that attempt to impose their own non-belief on others on this special day are trolls that don't have the sense to shut their festering gob for even 24 hours.

Thankfully, Matrix forums has a nice feature for this-the 'green button'. It's even color-coordinated for the season! Just like my Christmas tree.

ETA: Other than the first paragraph, aaatoysandmore, the above isn't directed towards you specifically. Peace.

[Lecivius]

I'm voting with CB on this.

[JWW]

I think you must consider the original post and the vitriol that so quickly erupted. There was no excuse for that.

[aaatoysandmore]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore
We're celebrating Saint Nicholas more than the birth of Christ. Or so it seems.

No *we* aren't, mate. If *you* are, then so be it-I hope your celebration of Saint Nicholas brings you and / or your family happiness.

My family (and most Christians I know personally) are very cognizant of (and lament) the commercialism of Christmas, yet mindful of the real reason for the celebration. The birth of our lord Jesus Christ.

I enjoy the time with my family and my children on Christmas and try not to let the myopic and targeted ill will of militant proselytizing atheists / agnostics / trolls detract from this day. Those that attempt to impose their own non-belief on others on this special day are trolls that don't have the sense to shut their festering gob for even 24 hours.

Thankfully, Matrix forums has a nice feature for this-the 'green button'. It's even color-coordinated for the season! Just like my Christmas tree.

ETA: Other than the first paragraph, aaatoysandmore, the above isn't directed towards you specifically. Peace.

I do believe there are a "few" who do not celebrate the commercialism but one would have to think just by all the advertisements, media on tv and radio and people grabbing this and that and you should have seen target here on black friday. It just makes it appear that the "majority" do celebrate Saint Nicholas vs Christ's birthday. It's kinda like what someone said though it's more of a tradition than an event celebration. You are programmed from a young age to do this stuff. I don't think the mold can be broken or that people really want it to be (the commercialism that is) When I was young my parents didn't teach me this was christ's birthday celebration it was all about Santa Claus and gifts. Christ actually came later in life from them. Maybe you were brought up differently. That's what I meant about everyone has a different look an impression about things. There's no real one way or no way to it.

EDIT: You do know they are going to lock this thread soon? [:'(] Anytime some form of religion and beliefs hit the page it usually isn't long afterwards Iain or Erik come along saying they are going to have to close it for such n such reasons.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore
We're celebrating Saint Nicholas more than the birth of Christ. Or so it seems.

No *we* aren't, mate. If *you* are, then so be it-I hope your celebration of Saint Nicholas brings you and / or your family happiness.

My family (and most Christians I know personally) are very cognizant of (and lament) the commercialism of Christmas, yet mindful of the real reason for the celebration. The birth of our lord Jesus Christ.

I enjoy the time with my family and my children on Christmas and try not to let the myopic and targeted ill will of militant proselytizing atheists / agnostics / trolls detract from this day. Those that attempt to impose their own non-belief on others on this special day are trolls that don't have the sense to shut their festering gob for even 24 hours.

Thankfully, Matrix forums has a nice feature for this-the 'green button'. It's even color-coordinated for the season! Just like my Christmas tree.

ETA: Other than the first paragraph, aaatoysandmore, the above isn't directed towards you specifically. Peace.

I do believe there are a "few" who do not celebrate the commercialism but one would have to think just by all the advertisements, media on tv and radio and people grabbing this and that and you should have seen target here on black friday. It just makes it appear that the "majority" do celebrate Saint Nicholas vs Christ's birthday. It's kinda like what someone said though it's more of a tradition than an event celebration. You are programmed from a young age to do this stuff. I don't think the mold can be broken or that people really want it to be (the commercialism that is) When I was young my parents didn't teach me this was christ's birthday celebration it was all about Santa Claus and gifts. Christ actually came later in life from them. Maybe you were brought up differently. That's what I meant about everyone has a different look an impression about things. There's no real one way or no way to it.

warspite1

But you seem to be saying if you "celebrate Saint Nicholas" you are not also celebrating the birth of Christ

"majority" do celebrate Saint Nicholas vs Christ's birthday.

- as though these are somehow mutually exclusive.

One can be a Christian, and believe that Christmas is a time of celebration for the birth of Christ and still take part in buying presents, and all the "commercial stuff" that some people here seem to be getting so worked up about.

[Qwixt]

I celebrate Christmas for the time off from work, as it's an official holiday. Thank you Christians for believing in a ridiculous myth (whoops...no, your religion is the one true religion, all the rest are funny myths) and the given self-importance from being in the vast majority that everyone should celebrate your religion. [:D]

I won't say no to a day off.