I've been thinking about this a lot lately.
If i'm not mistaken, Symon has always said that DBB scenarios should be played with PDU-OFF to be really balanced.
After having played nearly 1 and half year now into a PDU-OFF pbem i can't but agree with him.
However i was thinking if it's not about the moment to modify a bit some of the historical upgrade paths of some of the air groups present in the scenarios, so to give a more rational way of dealing with the upgrade process.
Will try to explain what i mean...
Playing Japan, for example, there are pretty a lot of air groups that have a very strange upgrade path. Some 1E bombers, for example, go from the Mary to the Ann, then the Ki-51b (Sonia "b") and then gets to the Oscar line. The KI-51b arrives somewhere in late 1943 (october i think) and it's a damn crappy plane, completely identical to the normal KI-51a Sonia that Japan starts the game with.
Then there are planes that cannt be used in any group at any time of the war (the "Norm" FP), which is quite a waste.
Then there are planes you're never really "forced" to use because you can easily upgrade all the groups that have them in the upgrade path to something more "usefull", thus losing the good thing of PDU OFF (to be forced to use every airframe type and get the best out of every model)... like the Mary, the A6M2Sen Baku, all the japanese FPs (all the FP groups can convert to the Jake or the Pete).
KI-45b is another example of a plane that you can easily not produce at all (only 1 6-planes group arriving in 1943 and staying active for less than a few months)
So what about exploring with the community the idea of analizyng all the upgrade paths of the historical air groups and studying a way to maximize the game-play benefits of PDU OFF?
What i mean is that i think we would all benefit from a PDU OFF environement where the japanese player is really forced to use ALL the a/c types that are present in the japanese inventory and in a more rational way.
what do u all think?
Thanks
GJ
(DBB) What about....?
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: (DBB) What about....?
+1. But I do like playing around with aircraft types. For example: there is an USAAF squadron or 2 (can't remember which) which goes from P-39 to P-400 and back to P-39. If you have the control, you can skip that nonsence. My 2 cents....GP
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RE: (DBB) What about....?
Agree. Neither I nor any of the Babes team have looked at the air aspect of the game’s database. I’ve always had (and still have) the greatest respect for the Air Team and thought that messing in their database pond would be like peeing in a bottle of Dom. Even our Babes airplane stats are generated directly from their paradigm, using their programs.ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I've been thinking about this a lot lately.
<snip>
what do u all think?
Thanks GJ
Thing is, there’s several ways to define upgrades – through the Airplane file or the Airgroups file: and an Airgroups upgrade links back to Airplane upgrades, and you will get one or the other, or both, depending on what switch you use. So it’s a real dog’s breakfast of possibilities.
Certainly worth looking at, but it will take a painstaking evaluation of every airframe and airgroup; Woof !!!
Ciao. JWE
Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la liberté! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
Yippy Ki Yay.
Yippy Ki Yay.
RE: (DBB) What about....?
ORIGINAL: Symon
Agree. Neither I nor any of the Babes team have looked at the air aspect of the game’s database. I’ve always had (and still have) the greatest respect for the Air Team and thought that messing in their database pond would be like peeing in a bottle of Dom. Even our Babes airplane stats are generated directly from their paradigm, using their programs.ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I've been thinking about this a lot lately.
<snip>
what do u all think?
Thanks GJ
Thing is, there’s several ways to define upgrades – through the Airplane file or the Airgroups file: and an Airgroups upgrade links back to Airplane upgrades, and you will get one or the other, or both, depending on what switch you use. So it’s a real dog’s breakfast of possibilities.
Certainly worth looking at, but it will take a painstaking evaluation of every airframe and airgroup; Woof !!!
Ciao. JWE
I get what you mean John.
I will try to look at it and post some of my modest evaluations about Japan' air oob with Pdu off.
There are few things that, imho, still unbalance the game with PDU off in favour of Japan i've been discovering in these last months while trying to get the best out of my air arsenal in my match against Obvert.
One of these things, for sure is the upgrade path of the Rufe, who allows to get the A6M5 way too fast.
Imho the Rufe should have an upgrade path directly connected to the Rex, so to the only other float fighter in the air arsenal. Or to the A6M3 if you want. Surely not the the A6M5....
Also we'd need to have more LBA sentais that are forced to use the A6M5b... Now as it is, you can easily produce just 45 A6m5bs and then simply skip to the "c" version... Too easy
Also the Frank "r".... Too easy to get once you get the A version...i'd put the R version as the upgrade version of the b variant, so to get it hardly in mid/late 1944....
Anyway, during these upcoming holidays Obvert will be out of town, so i'll have some spare time and will try to dig in it and come up with some ideas...
RE: (DBB) What about....?
GreyJoy,
Symon has alluded to what the fundamental problem is.
The fact is that over the years many have impugned the accuracy of the air teams OOB. On every single occasion the complainers have failed to provide any concrete objective evidence that the air team, and TimTom in particular, were incorrect in their OOB. Even when the air team has mentioned the assumptions it ultimately made when the source data was lacking, no one has successfully demonstrated that the assumptions were inferior to the complainers own assumptions. Hence why Symon has such a high regard for the air team.
The primary upgrade path switch is that of the aircraft model upgrade. Whatever the aircraft production will automatically switch to without player intervention, is what the air unit will upgrade to. This can be altered, and has been on a few occasions to represent the historical experience, by the scenario designer for one upgrade in specific air units after which the pre set aircraft production upgrade will apply in that air unit.
I doubt that Symon would be a willing party to changing the aircraft production path unless you can demonstrate that TimTom got it wrong. That leaves tinkering with the individual air units. Again the problem is did the air team get it wrong. Most unlikely. So to achieve what you want entails very subjective decisions to provide non historical upgrade paths to individual air units. Possible but it would rather run against the general grain of the DaBabes family of mods which is fealty to historical accuracy, albeit still retaining playability. Not to mention the workload of examining each individual air unit.
The fact is that PDU ON provides Japan with a significant delta advantage over the Allies. With PDU OFF, that delta advantage is reduced but not eliminated. It all flows from the fundamental game design which allows Japanese control over their industry production whilst denying the Allies a similar control. That design decision is not going to be altered.
I would suggest that a more fruitful approach to achieving your preferred outcome entails altering the production process. For example, eliminating the airframe R&D bonus derived from aircraft engines. Or perhaps making repairing R&D research factories even more costly the further away from the historical production date. But not only would this entail much more dev effort, it would directly impact on the stock game and that is simply not an option as DaBabes must remain accessable to stock players.
Alfred
Symon has alluded to what the fundamental problem is.
The fact is that over the years many have impugned the accuracy of the air teams OOB. On every single occasion the complainers have failed to provide any concrete objective evidence that the air team, and TimTom in particular, were incorrect in their OOB. Even when the air team has mentioned the assumptions it ultimately made when the source data was lacking, no one has successfully demonstrated that the assumptions were inferior to the complainers own assumptions. Hence why Symon has such a high regard for the air team.
The primary upgrade path switch is that of the aircraft model upgrade. Whatever the aircraft production will automatically switch to without player intervention, is what the air unit will upgrade to. This can be altered, and has been on a few occasions to represent the historical experience, by the scenario designer for one upgrade in specific air units after which the pre set aircraft production upgrade will apply in that air unit.
I doubt that Symon would be a willing party to changing the aircraft production path unless you can demonstrate that TimTom got it wrong. That leaves tinkering with the individual air units. Again the problem is did the air team get it wrong. Most unlikely. So to achieve what you want entails very subjective decisions to provide non historical upgrade paths to individual air units. Possible but it would rather run against the general grain of the DaBabes family of mods which is fealty to historical accuracy, albeit still retaining playability. Not to mention the workload of examining each individual air unit.
The fact is that PDU ON provides Japan with a significant delta advantage over the Allies. With PDU OFF, that delta advantage is reduced but not eliminated. It all flows from the fundamental game design which allows Japanese control over their industry production whilst denying the Allies a similar control. That design decision is not going to be altered.
I would suggest that a more fruitful approach to achieving your preferred outcome entails altering the production process. For example, eliminating the airframe R&D bonus derived from aircraft engines. Or perhaps making repairing R&D research factories even more costly the further away from the historical production date. But not only would this entail much more dev effort, it would directly impact on the stock game and that is simply not an option as DaBabes must remain accessable to stock players.
Alfred
RE: (DBB) What about....?
ORIGINAL: Alfred
GreyJoy,
Symon has alluded to what the fundamental problem is.
The fact is that over the years many have impugned the accuracy of the air teams OOB. On every single occasion the complainers have failed to provide any concrete objective evidence that the air team, and TimTom in particular, were incorrect in their OOB. Even when the air team has mentioned the assumptions it ultimately made when the source data was lacking, no one has successfully demonstrated that the assumptions were inferior to the complainers own assumptions. Hence why Symon has such a high regard for the air team.
The primary upgrade path switch is that of the aircraft model upgrade. Whatever the aircraft production will automatically switch to without player intervention, is what the air unit will upgrade to. This can be altered, and has been on a few occasions to represent the historical experience, by the scenario designer for one upgrade in specific air units after which the pre set aircraft production upgrade will apply in that air unit.
I doubt that Symon would be a willing party to changing the aircraft production path unless you can demonstrate that TimTom got it wrong. That leaves tinkering with the individual air units. Again the problem is did the air team get it wrong. Most unlikely. So to achieve what you want entails very subjective decisions to provide non historical upgrade paths to individual air units. Possible but it would rather run against the general grain of the DaBabes family of mods which is fealty to historical accuracy, albeit still retaining playability. Not to mention the workload of examining each individual air unit.
The fact is that PDU ON provides Japan with a significant delta advantage over the Allies. With PDU OFF, that delta advantage is reduced but not eliminated. It all flows from the fundamental game design which allows Japanese control over their industry production whilst denying the Allies a similar control. That design decision is not going to be altered.
I would suggest that a more fruitful approach to achieving your preferred outcome entails altering the production process. For example, eliminating the airframe R&D bonus derived from aircraft engines. Or perhaps making repairing R&D research factories even more costly the further away from the historical production date. But not only would this entail much more dev effort, it would directly impact on the stock game and that is simply not an option as DaBabes must remain accessable to stock players.
Alfred
Sorry Alfred, i never meant to say that the OOB is wrong. I must have been unclear (english isnt my language and often i find difficult to express my thoughts in the right way).
I just meant that the present upgrade paths (both production upgrades and individual groups upgrade paths) may be re-analyzed in order to get a better playability with PDU OFF that may allow a far more balanced game that really forces Japanese players to make hard choices and, at the same time, allows a more rational upgrade paths not directly bound to what was the historical ones (that were often the answers to some tactical problems that rarely we see in our games).
I am thinking about an additional DBB scenario...just like there's scen 30 ( which is like scen 2 stock)... This could be scen 31... Dont know, was just an idea....
I'll try to study the problem anyway and will try to come up here with some evidences and possible alternative ideas...
RE: (DBB) What about....?
GreyJoy,
I know you were not impugning the Air Team as to their accuracy. What I was trying to point out is that the existing OOB/upgrade paths are footed firmly on the historical record. If an historical mistake exists, the Air Team would be the first to acknowledge the need to alter the affected OOB and Symon would readily make the change.
The real issue is that in the absence of demonstrated errors, you are asking for a move away from historical accuracy to a very subjective change which is best achieved at the air unit path rather than the aircraft production path. Putting aside the amount of work entailed and the arbitrariness of the new choice, which in any case is not guaranteed to improve playability anyway, I cannot see how Symon could easily accommodate this level of subjectivety in the DaBabes family.
DaBabes however is Symon's and Don's et al "intellectual property" so of course they can do whatever they want with it. It is after all a game, not a simulation, and there are already certain necessary compromises with historical reality anyway required to fit within the AE paradigm.
At the risk of putting words into his mouth, I am confident that Symon understands well what you are trying to achieve but that his preferred action would be for players to simply "be righteous". Making a game totally fool proof against "non righteous players" is impossible.
Alfred
I know you were not impugning the Air Team as to their accuracy. What I was trying to point out is that the existing OOB/upgrade paths are footed firmly on the historical record. If an historical mistake exists, the Air Team would be the first to acknowledge the need to alter the affected OOB and Symon would readily make the change.
The real issue is that in the absence of demonstrated errors, you are asking for a move away from historical accuracy to a very subjective change which is best achieved at the air unit path rather than the aircraft production path. Putting aside the amount of work entailed and the arbitrariness of the new choice, which in any case is not guaranteed to improve playability anyway, I cannot see how Symon could easily accommodate this level of subjectivety in the DaBabes family.
DaBabes however is Symon's and Don's et al "intellectual property" so of course they can do whatever they want with it. It is after all a game, not a simulation, and there are already certain necessary compromises with historical reality anyway required to fit within the AE paradigm.
At the risk of putting words into his mouth, I am confident that Symon understands well what you are trying to achieve but that his preferred action would be for players to simply "be righteous". Making a game totally fool proof against "non righteous players" is impossible.
Alfred
RE: (DBB) What about....?
I’ve been fiddling around with airplane upgrades for Op-SF, and boy, oh boy, it’s pretty complex.
With PDU-On, if the group is flying IJN fighters, what you see is a list of every IJN fighter as a potential upgrade – Plus every “specified” upgrade in the airgroup’s Upgrade field. If an airgroup has a “specified” upgrade to a Betty, and you select that, the next time you want to upgrade you will see a list of bombers, that you didn’t see first time around. Not to say that’s actually the case in the game, but it’s an available mod option. Pretty crazy, I know, but this feature, in combination with IJ aircraft production possibilities, makes for an outcome that an acid-head would be proud of.
With PDU-Off, what you get is what’s in the airgroup’s Upgrade menu “Up to a Point”. The definition of the Upgrade menu is critically important; it’s the only way the “airframe” upgrades get into the flow. Unfortunately, this aspect wasn’t developed as well as it could have been. Possibly, the implications were not realized, at the time, and if they were, there simply wasn’t the time or manpower to take advantage of it. Oh, well.
There’s 11 entry positions in the upgrade menu for an airgroup. The entries are taken in order, again “Up to a Point”. It’s going to be hard to describe the permutations textually, so I think the best approach is by an example, but first, an important note: for this to work, it’s going to take some incredibly difficult and, frankly, arbitrary choices as to airframe upgrade paths. Remember, these choices will be reflected in the “Nominal” aircraft factory upgrade flow, so the choices must be internally self-consistent and allow for rational production evolution, without necessitating player intervention. Many (if not most) players don’t dink with all that, so the default must be completely compatible with an easy and seamless gaming experience.
To begin: There’s 11 entry positions in the upgrade menu for an airgroup. Some are “specified” by listing an “airframe” number, some are blank. But they are not ‘simply’ blank. They have identifiers as Upgrade 1, Upgrade 5, etc. Their location within the Upgrade menu determines a lot of things.
Test Ku-1 is flying A6M2 Zeros. Upgrade entry 00 is to the A6M3a; entry 01 is to the J1N1-Sa; entry 02 is to the A6M5d-S; entry 03 is to Upgrade-4, etc. But A6M5d-S “aircraft” has no listed upgrade, so things stop there. So all you get is what’s listed.
But let’s say the M2 airframe upgrades to the M5, and let’s say the Upgrade entry 00 is set to ‘Upgrade-1’ and the rest are bumped down such that entry 01 is the M3a, and 02 is the J1N1, etc. THEN, the upgrade screen will show U-1, which is the M5, along with everything else.
There’s tons of cool stuff that can be done with this. Airgroups can have Zeros, and have U-1, 2, 3, clean to let them stay righteous, and then have U-4 be “specified” so they can change configuration, and have U-5, 6 be clean to let the new plane update according to its upgrade schedule, and then let some upgrade to the gnarly late war models by “specified” upgrades in the middle/higher menu entries.
I hope this all makes sense. It’s very convoluted, but once you get it, it’s like Woof!!
Not to say we can solve the problem anytime soon, but know what the problem is, and are looking at it. Trust me [8D]
With PDU-On, if the group is flying IJN fighters, what you see is a list of every IJN fighter as a potential upgrade – Plus every “specified” upgrade in the airgroup’s Upgrade field. If an airgroup has a “specified” upgrade to a Betty, and you select that, the next time you want to upgrade you will see a list of bombers, that you didn’t see first time around. Not to say that’s actually the case in the game, but it’s an available mod option. Pretty crazy, I know, but this feature, in combination with IJ aircraft production possibilities, makes for an outcome that an acid-head would be proud of.
With PDU-Off, what you get is what’s in the airgroup’s Upgrade menu “Up to a Point”. The definition of the Upgrade menu is critically important; it’s the only way the “airframe” upgrades get into the flow. Unfortunately, this aspect wasn’t developed as well as it could have been. Possibly, the implications were not realized, at the time, and if they were, there simply wasn’t the time or manpower to take advantage of it. Oh, well.
There’s 11 entry positions in the upgrade menu for an airgroup. The entries are taken in order, again “Up to a Point”. It’s going to be hard to describe the permutations textually, so I think the best approach is by an example, but first, an important note: for this to work, it’s going to take some incredibly difficult and, frankly, arbitrary choices as to airframe upgrade paths. Remember, these choices will be reflected in the “Nominal” aircraft factory upgrade flow, so the choices must be internally self-consistent and allow for rational production evolution, without necessitating player intervention. Many (if not most) players don’t dink with all that, so the default must be completely compatible with an easy and seamless gaming experience.
To begin: There’s 11 entry positions in the upgrade menu for an airgroup. Some are “specified” by listing an “airframe” number, some are blank. But they are not ‘simply’ blank. They have identifiers as Upgrade 1, Upgrade 5, etc. Their location within the Upgrade menu determines a lot of things.
Test Ku-1 is flying A6M2 Zeros. Upgrade entry 00 is to the A6M3a; entry 01 is to the J1N1-Sa; entry 02 is to the A6M5d-S; entry 03 is to Upgrade-4, etc. But A6M5d-S “aircraft” has no listed upgrade, so things stop there. So all you get is what’s listed.
But let’s say the M2 airframe upgrades to the M5, and let’s say the Upgrade entry 00 is set to ‘Upgrade-1’ and the rest are bumped down such that entry 01 is the M3a, and 02 is the J1N1, etc. THEN, the upgrade screen will show U-1, which is the M5, along with everything else.
There’s tons of cool stuff that can be done with this. Airgroups can have Zeros, and have U-1, 2, 3, clean to let them stay righteous, and then have U-4 be “specified” so they can change configuration, and have U-5, 6 be clean to let the new plane update according to its upgrade schedule, and then let some upgrade to the gnarly late war models by “specified” upgrades in the middle/higher menu entries.
I hope this all makes sense. It’s very convoluted, but once you get it, it’s like Woof!!
Not to say we can solve the problem anytime soon, but know what the problem is, and are looking at it. Trust me [8D]
Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la liberté! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
Yippy Ki Yay.
Yippy Ki Yay.
RE: (DBB) What about....?
ORIGINAL: Symon
I’ve been fiddling around with airplane upgrades for Op-SF, and boy, oh boy, it’s pretty complex.
With PDU-On, if the group is flying IJN fighters, what you see is a list of every IJN fighter as a potential upgrade – Plus every “specified” upgrade in the airgroup’s Upgrade field. If an airgroup has a “specified” upgrade to a Betty, and you select that, the next time you want to upgrade you will see a list of bombers, that you didn’t see first time around. Not to say that’s actually the case in the game, but it’s an available mod option. Pretty crazy, I know, but this feature, in combination with IJ aircraft production possibilities, makes for an outcome that an acid-head would be proud of.
With PDU-Off, what you get is what’s in the airgroup’s Upgrade menu “Up to a Point”. The definition of the Upgrade menu is critically important; it’s the only way the “airframe” upgrades get into the flow. Unfortunately, this aspect wasn’t developed as well as it could have been. Possibly, the implications were not realized, at the time, and if they were, there simply wasn’t the time or manpower to take advantage of it. Oh, well.
There’s 11 entry positions in the upgrade menu for an airgroup. The entries are taken in order, again “Up to a Point”. It’s going to be hard to describe the permutations textually, so I think the best approach is by an example, but first, an important note: for this to work, it’s going to take some incredibly difficult and, frankly, arbitrary choices as to airframe upgrade paths. Remember, these choices will be reflected in the “Nominal” aircraft factory upgrade flow, so the choices must be internally self-consistent and allow for rational production evolution, without necessitating player intervention. Many (if not most) players don’t dink with all that, so the default must be completely compatible with an easy and seamless gaming experience.
To begin: There’s 11 entry positions in the upgrade menu for an airgroup. Some are “specified” by listing an “airframe” number, some are blank. But they are not ‘simply’ blank. They have identifiers as Upgrade 1, Upgrade 5, etc. Their location within the Upgrade menu determines a lot of things.
Test Ku-1 is flying A6M2 Zeros. Upgrade entry 00 is to the A6M3a; entry 01 is to the J1N1-Sa; entry 02 is to the A6M5d-S; entry 03 is to Upgrade-4, etc. But A6M5d-S “aircraft” has no listed upgrade, so things stop there. So all you get is what’s listed.
But let’s say the M2 airframe upgrades to the M5, and let’s say the Upgrade entry 00 is set to ‘Upgrade-1’ and the rest are bumped down such that entry 01 is the M3a, and 02 is the J1N1, etc. THEN, the upgrade screen will show U-1, which is the M5, along with everything else.
There’s tons of cool stuff that can be done with this. Airgroups can have Zeros, and have U-1, 2, 3, clean to let them stay righteous, and then have U-4 be “specified” so they can change configuration, and have U-5, 6 be clean to let the new plane update according to its upgrade schedule, and then let some upgrade to the gnarly late war models by “specified” upgrades in the middle/higher menu entries.
I hope this all makes sense. It’s very convoluted, but once you get it, it’s like Woof!!
Not to say we can solve the problem anytime soon, but know what the problem is, and are looking at it. Trust me [8D]
Hi John,
thanks a lot. That's very informative and now i (think to) understand a little bit more about how it works.
I've been checking the editor and watched it with your example printed aside. It makes sense!
I'm now trying to track down every individual group and find a "pattern" for the different series of upgrade paths of the different groups.
Some of them are not so rational (probably just historical and bound to historical reasons), while some, while making sense, tend to take off all the beauty of PDU OFF.
Won't post it untill i get somehwere.
However i can already say that, imho, there are few main problems related to the grand campaign RnD and Jap production.
The first one is surely the A6MRufe main upgrade: should not be upgrading to the A6M5 but to the Rex instead...or to the A6M2 at best (r to nothing given its singularity).
The second problem, imho, is related to the A6M fighter bombers line (Sen Baku, A6M7 etc). Their upgrade path is pretty strange and not very rational imho (also considering how the FB are used in the game). The SenBaku upgrades to teh A6M5b...which is pretty nonsense imho. Should upgrade to the A6M7 version.
...just an appetizer...cause when you cross these "factory upgrade path" with the individual sentais upgrade paths, the thing becomes even more difficult to master...
There are at least 2 starting sentais that gofrom the A6M2 to the A6M2SenBaku for then getting back to the A6M5 line... thus making the Sen Baku a plane that everyone would want to simply by-pass. If the goal is to keep those sentais on the FB line after they upgrade from the starting model (a6m2) their upgrade path should be different (A6M7, A6M2-K and so on). While if we want to use them as fighters, and let only the late-war sentais get the FB variant, their upgrade path should be different (the usual A6M3, A6M3a etc...).
...more on it later
RE: (DBB) What about....?
After a lot of consulting through Joe Baugher (jeez, I didn¡¦t know he used to be a physics prof), I think I have a handle on the upgrade flow for IJN aviation, certainly the carrier capable part. Note, this is also going to play with the aircraft factory auto-upgrades.
Nominally, A5M4 „³ A6M2-21 „³ A6M3-32 „³ A6M3-22 „³ A6M5-52 „³ A6M8-64 (A6M8 requires a new engine, Ha33/62). There¡¦s obviously a few airframes missing, and the inclusion of the A6M3-32 is a speed bump, but here¡¦s how it can work.
Start with a Claude squadron:
Carrier squadron ¡V you want it to upgrade, but won¡¦t want it to include the A6M3-32, so U-1 is U-1 (blank, but A6M2 in the database); U-2 is A6M3-22; U-3 is U-3 (A6M5 as the upgrade to the A6 M3-22 in the database), and so on.
Land squadron ¡V you want it to upgrade but not go through the carrier capable stuff, so U-1 is A6M-32. U-2 might be U-2 (= A6M5-52), but it might also be the A6M5b, or A6M5c. U-3 would be whatever the A6M5b or A6M5c upgrades to.
This goes on till one gets to the A6M8/A7M2 time frame. Clearly, one hasn¡¦t used all the available upgrade slots, so there¡¦s a lot of room to get gnarly. Think this paradigm will encompass the air team¡¦s designations of planes to squadrons over time, but will allow for some internal upgrades.
[ed] jeez, the site doesn't recognize "thingys". Sorry 'bout that, but smart people will know what's meant. Ciao. JWE
Nominally, A5M4 „³ A6M2-21 „³ A6M3-32 „³ A6M3-22 „³ A6M5-52 „³ A6M8-64 (A6M8 requires a new engine, Ha33/62). There¡¦s obviously a few airframes missing, and the inclusion of the A6M3-32 is a speed bump, but here¡¦s how it can work.
Start with a Claude squadron:
Carrier squadron ¡V you want it to upgrade, but won¡¦t want it to include the A6M3-32, so U-1 is U-1 (blank, but A6M2 in the database); U-2 is A6M3-22; U-3 is U-3 (A6M5 as the upgrade to the A6 M3-22 in the database), and so on.
Land squadron ¡V you want it to upgrade but not go through the carrier capable stuff, so U-1 is A6M-32. U-2 might be U-2 (= A6M5-52), but it might also be the A6M5b, or A6M5c. U-3 would be whatever the A6M5b or A6M5c upgrades to.
This goes on till one gets to the A6M8/A7M2 time frame. Clearly, one hasn¡¦t used all the available upgrade slots, so there¡¦s a lot of room to get gnarly. Think this paradigm will encompass the air team¡¦s designations of planes to squadrons over time, but will allow for some internal upgrades.
[ed] jeez, the site doesn't recognize "thingys". Sorry 'bout that, but smart people will know what's meant. Ciao. JWE
Nous n'avons pas peur! Vive la liberté! Moi aussi je suis Charlie!
Yippy Ki Yay.
Yippy Ki Yay.