Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - The air war in China- DBB, SLs, PDU OFF

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Yaab
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RE: 1943!

Post by Yaab »

Wow, 357 guns destroyed. Given the abysmal Chinese gun production, you really hurt the Chinese here.
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crsutton
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RE: 1943!

Post by crsutton »

I am not a big fan of the way that Obvert uses his fighter escorts. But he has his reasons. He does not like LRCAP as much as I do but I am convinced that it produces much better results. But, he certainly has enough there to do the job. P40K is a big leap for the Allies as it is almost as fast as the Tojo and a much more robust aircraft. Surprised to see him losing so many corsairs though. Personally I think LRCAP in place to help with sweeps would prevent that. But he knows this business as well as I do....
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Lokasenna
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RE: 1943!

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Wow, 357 guns destroyed. Given the abysmal Chinese gun production, you really hurt the Chinese here.

I am not sure the 'raw' values above the actual combat results are subjectto fog of war, so I think it more likely that the 237 listed in the 'participation' section is more accurate... just my .02.
JocMeister
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RE: 1943!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I am not a big fan of the way that Obvert uses his fighter escorts. But he has his reasons. He does not like LRCAP as much as I do but I am convinced that it produces much better results. But, he certainly has enough there to do the job. P40K is a big leap for the Allies as it is almost as fast as the Tojo and a much more robust aircraft. Surprised to see him losing so many corsairs though. Personally I think LRCAP in place to help with sweeps would prevent that. But he knows this business as well as I do....

Problem with LRCAP is that its very chancy and quite buggy. Also creates an insane amount of FAT. While escort sucks he might not have any other airframes in sufficient numbers and it does give some protection to the bombers.

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Sangeli
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RE: 1943!

Post by Sangeli »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
Sangeli: LRCAP doesn't really work for me: Colombo is 4 hees from Trico and the last thing i need is to get my boys tired up to the 20/30s points defending air spaces that i am not 100% sure will be attacked (he could chose Colombo or Madras as a target every day).
I wasn't suggesting that you do it now; more a question of whether you could do it if Trico was shut down. But what about CAP at range 4 for some of the fighters at Colombo and Trico? That way if Erik attacks Colombo fighters from Trico can assist and vice versa. LRCAP works when you know where your opponent will attack (as you say not the case here) but bleeding CAP can be useful I think. I don't think fatigue at range 4 CAP is too bad. Given the disorganized quality of the raids in Ceylon, bleeding CAP seems like it might be more effective than usual as it gives the fighters plenty of time to vector into their targets.
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Lowpe
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RE: 1943!

Post by Lowpe »

I have had LRCAP bleed to other bases. Not sure if that is a good or bad thing.
JocMeister
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RE: 1943!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I have had LRCAP bleed to other bases. Not sure if that is a good or bad thing.

That is my main problem with LRCAP. Especially since LRCAP seems to (on occasion at least) ignore both target and max range.
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Lowpe
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RE: 1943!

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
That is my main problem with LRCAP. Especially since LRCAP seems to (on occasion at least) ignore both target and max range.

Ditto, and it is bad when they exceed the maximum range...from personal experience.[:D]
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Sangeli
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RE: 1943!

Post by Sangeli »

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
That is my main problem with LRCAP. Especially since LRCAP seems to (on occasion at least) ignore both target and max range.

Ditto, and it is bad when they exceed the maximum range...from personal experience.[:D]
Explains why in my current game I am seeing ~30 fatigue on range 0 LRCAP protecting a fleet in the same hex. Sounds like an actual bug. I'm curious if anyone has formally reported this one before. If not then someone should...
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GreyJoy
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RE: 1943!

Post by GreyJoy »

Guys, to me Lrcap or leaky cap has never really worked well. In my experience, the CAP with a range of 4 hexes won't protect neither Colombo nor Trico. Also the japanese radar is so horrible that you cannot really expect it to work well in coordinating your fighters among different hexes, especially if we're talking about 4 hexes

March 8-9, 1943

The allies land at Mylne Bay and at Esperance (Oz) using fast transport or barges. Not much i can do (or i want to to) to stop them.
A damn good sweep hit Torokina (Bouganville Is.) and gets a great ratio: 20 A6M5s for 5 P-38s[X(]

We fought back in the Marshalls, intercepting a milky runs over Mili, downing 12 of his bombers for just 1 A6M3.


In China we got some good results on the road toward Kunming and the contested hex should be now ready to be conquered.
We're also re-organizing the garrison requirements in China, in the hope to free up some good SNLF units to be used in the pacific.

Really the all of Changsha is a gift. I can't say how much i am relieved by having that damned pocket cleared out

Nauru Is. is officially out of supplies now. We all need to prey for the souls of those brave men, who have stopped cold the USMC Marines for more than 4 months[&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o]

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crsutton
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RE: 1943!

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I am not a big fan of the way that Obvert uses his fighter escorts. But he has his reasons. He does not like LRCAP as much as I do but I am convinced that it produces much better results. But, he certainly has enough there to do the job. P40K is a big leap for the Allies as it is almost as fast as the Tojo and a much more robust aircraft. Surprised to see him losing so many corsairs though. Personally I think LRCAP in place to help with sweeps would prevent that. But he knows this business as well as I do....

Problem with LRCAP is that its very chancy and quite buggy. Also creates an insane amount of FAT. While escort sucks he might not have any other airframes in sufficient numbers and it does give some protection to the bombers.


Hey Joc, yes there are some issues with fatigue being the largest cost. But I have done it both ways over the course of my AE experience and in spite of the flaws LRCAP is just much more efficient. And it prevents the horrendous losses to both bombers and especially fighters-something the Allies can't afford even occasionally at this stage of the game. I find that it also works better with Allies sweeps as they tend to go in one unit at a time. With LRCAP support this actually works better as it can just beat down local CAP in successive waves and almost guarantee that the bombers will go in unopposed.
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

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GreyJoy
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RE: 1943!

Post by GreyJoy »

March 10-11, 1943

Very quiet, except for the night mining missions against Calcutta that sinks two xAMc of mine sweeping them. Pretty annoying.

Not much happened. we gained one more hex near Kunming, pushing back the last of the enemy corps dug in in the crossroad. Now we're only 46 miles far from Kunming. Not bad. I'm pretty positive. Moving one more tank division on that way. they are the most effective ones against the Chinese bastards!

Milne Bay is conquered easily by an American regiment. expected. Not really a concern. The allies are getting close to my "maginot line" of Umboi and Finshtafen. Don't think they'll be able to pass through it easily.

Supplies at 3.02 Millions and raising steady. Very well.

A6M8 at 10/43 [:)]
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Sangeli
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RE: 1943!

Post by Sangeli »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
Guys, to me Lrcap or leaky cap has never really worked well. In my experience, the CAP with a range of 4 hexes won't protect neither Colombo nor Trico. Also the japanese radar is so horrible that you cannot really expect it to work well in coordinating your fighters among different hexes, especially if we're talking about 4 hexes
Granted my experience with the Japanese is more limited but I've generally found that it takes a while for bleeding CAP to vector into an attack, but eventually most of the fighters will make it to the battlefield eventually if there are many waves. In order for bleeding CAP to be more effective than range 0 CAP in this situation you really only need more than half of the fighters to reach the battle as the alternative is to split the fighters between the bases. I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong but its not like we have a good test case of this hypothesis in front of us to make a clear judgement one way or the other. Would be interested to hear what experience others have had with bleeding CAP like this as Japan because as the Allies I have found it to be useful in situations like this.
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Lokasenna
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RE: 1943!

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

March 10-11, 1943

Very quiet, except for the night mining missions against Calcutta that sinks two xAMc of mine sweeping them. Pretty annoying.

Not much happened. we gained one more hex near Kunming, pushing back the last of the enemy corps dug in in the crossroad. Now we're only 46 miles far from Kunming. Not bad. I'm pretty positive. Moving one more tank division on that way. they are the most effective ones against the Chinese bastards!

Milne Bay is conquered easily by an American regiment. expected. Not really a concern. The allies are getting close to my "maginot line" of Umboi and Finshtafen. Don't think they'll be able to pass through it easily.

Supplies at 3.02 Millions and raising steady. Very well.

A6M8 at 10/43 [:)]

You are well ahead of mine, and I even took advantage of Realistic OFF to get the A6M5c really quickly!

I'm really interested in your supply trends, keep posting!
JocMeister
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RE: 1943!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Hey Joc, yes there are some issues with fatigue being the largest cost. But I have done it both ways over the course of my AE experience and in spite of the flaws LRCAP is just much more efficient. And it prevents the horrendous losses to both bombers and especially fighters-something the Allies can't afford even occasionally at this stage of the game. I find that it also works better with Allies sweeps as they tend to go in one unit at a time. With LRCAP support this actually works better as it can just beat down local CAP in successive waves and almost guarantee that the bombers will go in unopposed.

Just to be clear. I use LRCAP all the time. Not saying escort should be used exclusively instead. [:)] But in certain scenarios I prefer to use Escort over LRCAP despite its horrendous disadvantages.
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MrKane
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RE: 1943!

Post by MrKane »

I have learned very useful trick using LRCAP during my game vs Spidery. If you set most of your fighters to LRCAP over enemy base at very high altitude and next you will send sweep at medium altitude. Game will lower enemy CAP to intercept incoming sweep at medium alt, as result your opponent fighters are between two yours layers and are easy pray for bigger and higher flaying one. It works for me with P-47 on LRCAP and F4U-1 as sweepers, this is only way I can beat my opponents hordes of N1K1-J flying at 40k alt.
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GreyJoy
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RE: 1943!

Post by GreyJoy »

The game is on hold untill the new year cause Erik is attending to his honeymoon overseas and promised her not to bring the pc with him[:D]

The last turn is the 14th Marc 1943

The allies are pushing fast now in the SOPAC/SWPAC. Conquered the corner of Milne May and now are pushing towards Lae. At the same time they got Shortland island and are now at the very gates of Bouganville, which is my main perimeter. Will try to reinforce now Buka and Green Island, so to avoid a coup de main at my back.

I've taken a decision now about India: we'll get out. Madras willbe evacuated by 1st April and eastern India will be abbandoned. We'll move to a new perimeter in order to defend Burma but not giving China an easy time anyway.
Ceylon will be kept, but i'll withdraw the divisions and the HQs,leaving behind just 600 AVs of secondary troops (indipendent regiments and Brigades).
Madras will be the key. Won't be an easy task to accomplsh...90,000 men in a single night....[X(]. Hopefully Erik won't notice untill the very last moment...so, shhhhhhhhhh!!!! LOSE LIPS KILL SHIPS!!!![8D]

In OZ i feel i quite accomplished what i wanted. Got everything back to Exmouth and Port Hedland and now the perimeter looks solid again.
Exmouth has now 850 AVs with 4 forts and i hope to get to 6 before he advances. Perth is still mine, which is good. More months gained.

The initial idea of forcing him to advance in the CENTPAC is, hopefully,working.

I am also planning the reinforce of Java and Sumatra. Should have 5 Divisions for Sumatra and 5 more for Java in the next 3 months (from China and from India).

Horn Island is getting a good CD unit now and a full division is arriving from China in the next 50 days, along with 50,000 supplies. Hopefully he will avoid it and concentrate on advancing towards Rabaul and the Marshalls.

Nauru is stillin my hands, even if supplies are now completely run dry...my air bridge is still working but not bringing enough...



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GreyJoy
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RE: 1943!

Post by GreyJoy »

This is the newly planned perimeter in India-Burma

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ny59giants
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RE: 1943!

Post by ny59giants »

Belated Merry Christmas Nic!! [:D]

I would ensure Ramree Island is a small fortress. From my experience this base allowed me to supply my troop in the Irrawaddy River valley easily while having those base built to max in Amman area didn't.

Are you temporarily converting your xAKs to (-t) to allow more troops on your transport for your Madras evac?? For me, my Aden Class xAKs are my main resource haulers, but you may need them for this operation.

Good luck, counselor.
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GreyJoy
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RE: 1943!

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Belated Merry Christmas Nic!! [:D]

I would ensure Ramree Island is a small fortress. From my experience this base allowed me to supply my troop in the Irrawaddy River valley easily while having those base built to max in Amman area didn't.

Are you temporarily converting your xAKs to (-t) to allow more troops on your transport for your Madras evac?? For me, my Aden Class xAKs are my main resource haulers, but you may need them for this operation.

Good luck, counselor.


Happy xmas to u too micheal!!!!

Yup, but Easier than defending Ramree is defending the hex just east of it. River crossing hex and, once held, prevents anything to flow from it to the valley.
The key in Burma is to defend just few spots. There are some key hexes that let u gain control over Burma.
A thai division is moving to Ramree with some engineers anyway, but plan to put a whole crack division and some heavy artillery right east of it, should work...

I already have enough xAK-Ts and also pretty a lot of xAPs. Transports for this op shouldnt be a problem. The main problem will be timing and the air control over Madras untill all my units are out.
The KB will be needed tough....

Will be massive. I will need to load 90,000 men at Madras and 30,000 at Calcutta at the very same time, while more 230k will have to rail out from Assam to the Burma border
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