Replacement problems

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MechFO
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Replacement problems

Post by MechFO »

Copy paste from the Suggestions thread:
Some problems:

- look at the replacements system? Even with putting several divisions on refit in both east and west(at national level 4 depots), hardly any replacements are flowing even though I have some huge pool numbers (1000+ panzershrek, 1500+ 20mm AA, 1600 81mm mortars, 1000+ 75mmAT, 33k Manpower and lots of armaments).

- I have depots in the East of the map using huge numbers of trucks over several turns? I have no idea of what is going on.

Danzig 15'500
Koenigsberg 10'000
Bucharest 24'000
Lodz 13'000
Ploesti 10'000
Kuressare 2'500 (an island with literally nothing on it, this used to be over 15'000 until I built a depot in Riga, but I have no idea what it is supposed to be supplying)

Ploesti has a few fighter units right next door, but nothing else is east of Berlin/Vienna except for some scattered flak.
Something fishy is definitely going on. Huge pools of various items by turn 16 of the 43-45 campaign, several depleted divisions in the East and West(on national supply centers) on refit but hardly anything is flowing. I would say the real anomalies started with the TOE upgrades to Inf 44a/b, but even Inf Divs at 40-50 TOE on refit are not receiving anything over 2-3 turns. Looks like the production system is producing according to demand but nothing is getting shipped. Should I post in Tech Support?
What are your Supply Priorities set to in your HQs for those units? What does the Supply Detail for those units say about why they are not receiving replacements? Odds are your Supply Priority is too low. Also, if refitting, park them on a Depot hex behind the lines, it will help.

Regards,

- Erik
Attached to OKW or Korps, Supply priority 4 throughout, sitting on massive Depots at 4.

Egregious examples have been sitting on Vienna, Frankfurt and Dresden (except Dresden national depots), so shouldn't be a problem with rail capacity.

A typical example for one of the Inf Divs sitting at Frankfurt on refit with TOE of 41 (set to max):

Depots:
FrRec: 61

Received:
Supplies 61
Replacements -20

A different example is a Inf Div at 106% of TOE that upgraded it's TOE to Inf Div44a. Its been sitting at Dresden for several turns on refit, Supply details say no replacements received even though it has big holes of some items (and pools are overflowing) and I would like the excess squads to feed back into the system.

Also, the Logistics phase reports a grand total of 1 MG, 1 50mm mortar and 1 Support Squad as total Replacements in the West of the last turn. This although I have a dozen Infantry divisions which upgraded TOE, a SS PzGren Div that upgraded to a SS Pz Div (not on refit, but still), all needing equipment that overflowing in the pools but not going out to the units (all no replacements received in Supply detail).
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MechFO
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by MechFO »

Save Turn 15
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by MechFO »

Save Turn 14
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bairdlander2
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by bairdlander2 »

Depleted units take 5 turn to fill with replacements,if I recall manual correctly.
MechFO
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by MechFO »

Haven't seen that part but in the first few turns units at national supply centers were filling out in 1-2 turns. (at least those elements which were on demand and available)

Regardless, there should be sizeable amounts of equipment in the pools going out due to the TOE switches. Everything seems frozen.

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Helpless
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by Helpless »

Supply details in some units in Vienna suggests that you have no manpower and/or trucks.

Pavel Zagzin
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michaelm75au
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by michaelm75au »

I see the same thing in a few other places also. Your global supply and fuel state is low, shows 0 in the unit tab of the Commander's report screen.
Michael
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by MechFO »

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Supply details in some units in Vienna suggests that you have no manpower and/or trucks.


So 3x Manpower production in the pool is not enough?

What about the 1000's of guns and mortars in the pool...shouldn't they at least be feeding through?

Why would units on a national depot need trucks? Is this connected with the huge usage of trucks by the depots in the eastern part of the map?
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Helpless
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by Helpless »

So 3x Manpower production in the pool is not enough?

Active pool has only 15k which is about the size of production cycle which happens after the replacements.
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MechFO
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by MechFO »

ORIGINAL: michaelm

I see the same thing in a few other places also. Your global supply and fuel state is low, shows 0 in the unit tab of the Commander's report screen.

Never looked at that tab before, thank you for pointing it out to me.

Some further oddities

Gleiwitz is supporting 200 units?

Warsaw is supporting 500 but hardly using any trucks?
Königsberg is supporting 30 but using 36000?
MechFO
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by MechFO »

ORIGINAL: Helpless
So 3x Manpower production in the pool is not enough?

Active pool has only 15k which is about the size of production cycle which happens after the replacements.

I see.

What about the huge existing pools of items? Waiting for freight capacity for delivery?

How long does it take for the items in the transit pool to arrive at the front?

Why are no excess Squads from the TOE transition being shipped back? According to manual these should be transported for free?
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Helpless
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by Helpless »

What about the huge existing pools of items? Waiting for freight capacity for delivery?

Items can't be used if you have no manpower.
How long does it take for the items in the transit pool to arrive at the front?

Iirc, it deliver 1/4 of transit pool to active each turn.
Why are no excess Squads from the TOE transition being shipped back? According to manual these should be transported for free?


They should, but there is a threshold when it starts. i.e. it may not start with 110%
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MechFO
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by MechFO »

So in short I'm suffering a massive manpower crunch?

Are my Air Support squads impacting this? I have 23'000 of them in my pool, is this a quarter million men sitting around twiddling thumbs?

This is probably due to me moving my air units around a lot and new air support squads being produced and the old ones not being disbanded.
ORIGINAL: Helpless
What about the huge existing pools of items? Waiting for freight capacity for delivery?

Items can't be used if you have no manpower.

I see, I thought the manpower was added at device production, not delivery.
ORIGINAL: Helpless
Why are no excess Squads from the TOE transition being shipped back? According to manual these should be transported for free?


They should, but there is a threshold when it starts. i.e. it may not start with 110%

Would it help to temporarily lower the TOE settings to set a churn going?



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Helpless
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by Helpless »

Are my Air Support squads impacting this? I have 23'000 of them in my pool, is this a quarter million men sitting around twiddling thumbs?

Very possible. Air support (as all other ground elements) "consume" manpower. If you have intensive air group movement between air bases, it will cause air support to be built and moved around. Shutting down some base can provide extra manpower in the pool.
Would it help to temporarily lower the TOE settings to set a churn going?

Lowering TOE won't cause excess to be sent, it is used when receiving only.
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MechFO
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by MechFO »

ORIGINAL: Helpless
Are my Air Support squads impacting this? I have 23'000 of them in my pool, is this a quarter million men sitting around twiddling thumbs?

Very possible. Air support (as all other ground elements) "consume" manpower. If you have intensive air group movement between air bases, it will cause air support to be built and moved around. Shutting down some base can provide extra manpower in the pool.

Could some patch increase the rate of decay for these air support groups? The general design is great, but it turning into such a huge inactive manpower sink can hardly be the design goal.

Edit: I don't understand why I have built any air support at all. I start T1 with over 13000 in the pool. I shifted several units around but in total I actually consolidated my airbases and sent a lot of my air force East.
ORIGINAL: Helpless
Would it help to temporarily lower the TOE settings to set a churn going?

Lowering TOE won't cause excess to be sent, it is used when receiving only.

Could some way be implemented to facilitate such swaps. The above means that the German Infantry Divisions in the West are unable to upgrade their TOE until France is invaded and they begin to suffer combat damage.


Any idea about the truck usage I mentioned or should I make a separate thread for that?
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Joel Billings
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by Joel Billings »

Having 23000 support squads in your pool does not mean you have 230,000 men sitting around in the pool. These pool elements are just the equipment for the squad, but not the manpower. You must get manpower from the pool to fill out this equipment and make an actual support squad. You only appear to have 80k men in airbases, so you've already mined the airbases of most of the ground personnel that you can take.

Yes, you have a manpower shortage, as most of your manpower is going to be going to the Eastern Front. This is just a normal state of affairs for the Western Front.

As for the trucks, since you are playing with the EF option, those eastern depots are using trucks to satisfy the needs of the Eastern Front units.

If you have units that are sitting in refit on a national supply source, and not getting anything, the best thing is to provide us a save from just before the German logistics phase (the start of the prior player turn will probably be all you have in a game against the AI). This way we can look and see why the units in Frankfurt are not getting any manpower. The report of no manpower 100 is a little confusing for me as this implies there was no manpower in the 100 TOE phase, but your units there have only 45% of TOE so I'd expect they would be trying in earlier phases. It's always possible the East Front took 100% of manpower available, but given what I see this shouldn't be very likely. As you go into the winter, things should get better for you as the East Front can become more stable which lowers the replacement priorities for the EF units.
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MechFO
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by MechFO »

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
Having 23000 support squads in your pool does not mean you have 230,000 men sitting around in the pool. These pool elements are just the equipment for the squad, but not the manpower. You must get manpower from the pool to fill out this equipment and make an actual support squad. You only appear to have 80k men in airbases, so you've already mined the airbases of most of the ground personnel that you can take.

Yes, you have a manpower shortage, as most of your manpower is going to be going to the Eastern Front. This is just a normal state of affairs for the Western Front.

Thank you for clearing that up.

A last manpower question, how can one track all the manpower outgoings because the logistics phase report seems incomplete.

F.e. turn 15 I have 10k manpower production, the total pool increase 0.7k compared to turn 14, but only 4k goes out in replacements and only to the EF, the WF receives nil.

I seem to be missing 5k somewhere and these seem to be going out in undocumented reinforcements. See bottom of this post.
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
As for the trucks, since you are playing with the EF option, those eastern depots are using trucks to satisfy the needs of the Eastern Front units.

Does this mean building some more depots closer to the Eastern map edge would be a good idea?
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
If you have units that are sitting in refit on a national supply source, and not getting anything, the best thing is to provide us a save from just before the German logistics phase (the start of the prior player turn will probably be all you have in a game against the AI). This way we can look and see why the units in Frankfurt are not getting any manpower. The report of no manpower 100 is a little confusing for me as this implies there was no manpower in the 100 TOE phase, but your units there have only 45% of TOE so I'd expect they would be trying in earlier phases. It's always possible the East Front took 100% of manpower available, but given what I see this shouldn't be very likely. As you go into the winter, things should get better for you as the East Front can become more stable which lowers the replacement priorities for the EF units.

It's not just Frankfurt, Vienna as well. I have the saves immediately before the end of T13 and T14, the T14 one is attached

One big oddity is that on T14 (save in 3rd post) the 16th SS PzGren Div in Vienna is at 31TOE. On T15(save in 2nd post), it is at 89TOE, however, the supply details state "No manpower 100" and according to the logistics phase log I received 0 replacements in the West.
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Joel Billings
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by Joel Billings »

Thanks for the save. I would not trust the logistics phase report total in this case (I'd trust your eyes that the unit just went up in strength, just coulnd't go all the way as the pool ran out of manpower). We'll take a look.
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Joel Billings
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by Joel Billings »

BTW, I don't think building any more depots in the east will help out.
All understanding comes after the fact.
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RE: Replacement problems

Post by MechFO »

I just wanted to add that I've begun to systematically disband low morale formations. As such I've begun to withdraw very low morale units from the EF. Some of them arrive with much less strength than on the previous turn when I ordered them west. In the manual the possibility of a moral loss is mentioned, but nothing about losing equipment. Are units that are being withdrawn still subject to the EF losses?
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