Question on moving plane delivery up one month

[colt6900]

I'm trying to understand how to move up aircraft delivery by spending supply points or industry points whichever.

I believe it's 100 supply points will move up a plane production one month?

Does that have to be all in one factory or can it be the total of 100 spent across multiple factories?

Does that have to be spent all at once, in one month or is automatic when you accumulate 100 points spent?

[rustysi]

Wow, where do I start. Its not quite what you're thinking. First I assume you're playing Japan, as the Allies can't move A/C delivery anywhere. Then you need to get an R&D factory (or several) up and going, optimal is 30 points. This will take MP, HI, and supply and will start with all factories damaged. It will take quite a bit of time for these to repair and do anything. This will depend on when the A/C is do historically and if you can maintain at least 10000 supply at the base to repair said factory up to full strength. Only at full strength will it add points toward A/C production advancement....

There's more and I would suggest you look for more posts on it and read those as its a pretty involved process. I would also suggest that if you are new to the game you concentrate on other aspects first. Although I've worked slowly at it, its been over a year and a half for me getting the Japanese war effort and economy in order. This is the final aspect that I'm currently tackling. I was trying to think of a thread to point you to, but can't at the moment (senior moment). I'm sure someone here will point you in the right direction soon (if they haven't already). If not I'll be back.

[rustysi]

tm.asp?m=3329605

This was the one I was looking for, its by Numdydar. Everything you wanted to know about Japanese production but were afraid to ask. Season according to taste... I have.[8D]

[colt6900]

Thank you rustysi, I have read this posting. However, it only helps a little bit it's not that clear, however, it's better than nothing.

[sanderz]

Alimentary posted the following regarding a similar question of mine in another thread, may not be quite what you are looking for though

======
The R&D factories work for free in the sense that they consume no HI to perform their research role. While repairing, they do consume 1000 supply per point repaired.

To determine whether repairs will take place, take the factory size and divide by the number of days until the current scheduled availability date. That is the probability that the R&D factory will be repaired by one point on the current day. That means that the factory will be fully repaired when about 61% of the time to its originally schedule availability date has elapsed. This is independent of how big the factory is.

When fully repaired, a 30 point R&D factory produces 1 R&D point per day. When not fully repaired, it produces NOTHING. Smaller factories produce proportionally less. For instance, a size 10 factory has a 1/3 chance each day of producing a point. 100 points moves availability up by one month. If 500 engines of the appropriate type are in the pool, you get a bonus R&D point for each R&D point produced by a factory. However, this uses up an engine (a plane's worth of engines??) from the engine pool.

R&D Engine factories work the same way except that they have no delay on repairs. There is a 100% chance each day that one point of damage will be repaired, supplies permitting. Obviously R&D engine factories can not get an engine bonus.
======

[colt6900]

rustysi see if you think I'm on the right track, or anyone else who can spot what I'm missing?

The only two times I can figure out to change the next upgrade to an aircraft is. 1 - paying the cost of converting a factory to a new plane, preferably a small plant that can be expanded when I have surplus points in time to increase the delivery date of the aircraft in time to make a difference. 2 - is simply switch an aircraft unit to an available aircraft that has the upgrade path I'm seeking, then expanding the specific aircraft R&D to speed it up.

If this is true, then I guess my best option is to convert those factories shut down because the planes are not useful enough to produce?

[colt6900]

Thanks sanderz

that wasn't what my question was aimed at but that turned out to be very informative for something I thought I knew, but didn't understand as well as you explained.

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: colt6900


Thank you rustysi, I have read this posting. However, it only helps a little bit it's not that clear, however, it's better than nothing.

As the person that spent a lot of time writing that document, I would love to know what you found unclear. The last section is the one that deals with Japanese R&D.

Also the guide ONLY is for understanding the Japanese economy and not how to best use it. So it may be possible you were looking more for "How to use Japanese production" versus understanding how it works.

[Encircled]

You really need to read as many bits of info on Japanese production as you can.

Then you need to start a game, and be prepared to make a shed load of mistakes, but at the end of it you will know how it all works.

Then you can tailor it to your specific way of playing Japan

An excellent start would be reading the Mike Solli AAR

[Numdydar]

+1 to the above [:D]

[sanderz]

Regarding the bit in bold below.....

Taken from something originally posted by Alimentary

When fully repaired, a 30 point R&D factory produces 1 R&D point per day. When not fully repaired, it produces NOTHING. Smaller factories produce proportionally less. For instance, a size 10 factory has a 1/3 chance each day of producing a point.

do R&D factories larger than 30 produce proportionally more research points e.g. do 60 factories produce 2 research popints per day?

thanks

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: sanderz

Regarding the bit in bold below.....

Taken from something originally posted by Alimentary

When fully repaired, a 30 point R&D factory produces 1 R&D point per day. When not fully repaired, it produces NOTHING. Smaller factories produce proportionally less. For instance, a size 10 factory has a 1/3 chance each day of producing a point.

do R&D factories larger than 30 produce proportionally more research points e.g. do 60 factories produce 2 research popints per day?

thanks

The developers mentioned at some point that size 30 is the sweet spot. There is a lot of math that can explain why. I'm happy to just build mine to size 30 and wait for them to repair! [:)]

The key with R n D is not going overboard, and especially not enlarging too many of the factories in the beginning of the game. You'll shut your economy down really quickly if you burn through the extra supply in the Home Islands, so increase a few at a time to the size 30 and in the first few months look for trends in supply usage (including what you need to ship to the front lines ), resources coming in to the Home Islands, and see how the factories are repairing. You also have to have 10k supplies in the bases where they are located to have them repair supply points, so you have to set toggles on any base with factories to at least 4k (the base will try to pull and hold 3x that amount) or more depending on how many factories are located in each that you're trying to repair.

[alimentary]

One old thread that has some further information is here

The bottom line is that size 30 is the sweet spot. A size 60 factory does not produce two points per day.

[colt6900]

Numdydar

The manual is very handy and well done, I'm retired from Silicon Valley and I know that no matter how much work you
put into a manual to describe what a program is supposed to do. You always have questions asked that you never
thought of or the same question asked about something in a way you didn't think of.

For example, telling a sub to remain on station, will this do the same thing as telling it to patrol just one hex?
The reason for this question as an example is that on some missions I do not want a sub to engage the enemy.
But the manual doesn't clarify remain on station for this purpose, which probably was never thought of when
writing the manual.

[colt6900]

Obvert

that's a very good explanation. I thank you for the help.
You may be the best one to ask the next question to so I'll do it directly rather than post.

When adding 100 points to a planes to get it a month earlier delivery, will 1000 get you 10 months or
will 100 over 10 months get 10 months earlier date.
1-what are the development points, heavy industry, supply points or just the number in parentheses?
2-how soon do you have to reach 100 points in order to moving delivery up one month?
A year in advance or can it still move up a month if you do it two months before delivery?
3-when switching a factory to a new Engine or Plain in R&D will it maintain the old upgrade path, or following
the new for the new Engine or Plain?
last-if the 100 points is spread over five factories will it still achieved the goal of one month sooner if some
factories are not at 30 the sweet spot?

[alimentary]

0) 1000 gets you 10 months. 100 gets you one month total, not one month per month.

1) I do not understand the question.

2) As long as you accumulate 100 points before the plane is scheduled to arrive, its availability will be advanced by one month.

3) The factory will upgrade along the path (if any) for the currently assigned engine or airframe. The model it had been producing previously is irrelevant.

4) It does not matter what factories contribute the total of 100 points, how much they each contribute or how big they are when they contribute. All that matters is the total.

[sanderz]

ORIGINAL: alimentary

One old thread that has some further information is here

The bottom line is that size 30 is the sweet spot. A size 60 factory does not produce two points per day.

i found this in the link you provided - is this still the correct formula?

Code: Select all

 (a.1) Daily number of initial devices from factory is as with a/c production 
 [ (active devices + random(30))/30]. If this number is 0, or there are any damaged 
 devices present, then no R&D will result this turn from this factory. 
 
 (a.2) A factory will then produce a random R&D between 1 and the number of devices
 from step (a.1) ie 1 device = 1, 2 devices = 1,2, 3 devices =1,2,3, 
 4 devices = 1,2,3,4  10 devices = 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 etc.
 
 (b) The random R&D is then divided by 10. Any random R&D of less than 10 will be '0', 
 otherwise it will be the ten's component of the random R&D.
 
 (c) If there are no damaged devices in factory (this is a given as there must 
 be NO damaged ones present), add '1' to the number from (b).
 (d) If the number from (c) exceeds 3, it is capped at '3'.
 
 The number from (d) is added to the a/c development counter - this will be a 
 number from 1 to 3 inclusive.
 Once the counter exceeds 100, it moves the available date sooner by a month and 
 resets the development counter. 

If the above is correct is this how the math would work?

Assume i have 30 factories and my random number is 25 then :-

a1 = n/a (always n/a if 30+ factories)

a2 = 25 (assumed random number)

b) = 25/10 = 2.5 ====> 2.0 (divide by 10 and drop fractions)

c) = 2.0 + 1.0 = 3 points of research on this day (add 1 to result)

d) = n/a (random number would need to have been 30 which would give 4 research points that would then be restricted to 3)

so assuming a full spread of random numbers between 1 and 30 then over the month i would have approx 10 days @ 1, 10 days @ 2, and 10 days @ 3 ?????????

this can't be right

[alimentary]

Let me run through it for you.

Size 30 factory...

a1 = 1 always (30+0 through 30+29 divided by 30 and the result will always round down to 1)
a2 = 1 always (random number between 1 and 1)
b = 0 always (divide by 10 discarding remainder)
c = 1 always (add 1)
d = 1 always (1 is already less than or equal to 3)

Result: 1 point every day.


Size 10 factory...

a1 = 1 with probability 10/30. If roll fails, no research today
a2 = 1 always
b = 0 always
c = 1 always
d = 1 always

Result: 1 point per day with probability 10/30

Size 285 factory...

a1 = 9 or 10 with 50/50 odds either way
a2 = 1-10 with probability 5% of getting the 10
b = 0 or 1 with 0 being much more likely
c = 1 or 2 with 1 being much more likely
d = 1 or 2 with 1 being much more likely.

Result: 1 point per day with probability 195/200 and 2 points with probability 5/200.

Like the man said... 30 is the sweet spot. Lower will work ok, but higher is pretty much a complete waste.

[Numdydar]

Yes a size 30 R&D factory that is fully repaired will provide 1 point/day towards advancement. Once you get 100 points, you do NOT automatically get an advance. You now get a CHANCE of an one month advance. But at some point you will get an advance of one month, the advancement counter is then reset to 0 and it all starts over again.

Typically a 30 point R&D factory will provide a month's advance of an airframe about every 3.5-4 months.

However to add more confusion IF you have 500+ engines in your pool that that particular air frame needs, then you get another 1 point/day. So with a size 30 R&D factory AND 500+ of that plane's engines in the pool for the entire month, then you would get 2 points per day or 60 points/month. This would mean that about every 2 months your air frame would advance one month. With this combination, it is very possible to really accelerate your AC R&D efforts. [:)] Not that it will do much good in the end, but that is part of the 'fun' as playing Japan. To see what you can do to delay the end result.

[sanderz]

just trying to understand the math [:D]

still not sure if you are telling me the forumla i described was wrong or if i just read it wrong - though i assume the latter

i read a1 as just producing 0 or 1 and then only proceeding if answer was 1, if not then stop and don't do the other steps EDIT==> OR if it is producing a number used in a2 then with 60 factories you get [60 + random(30)] / 30 = 2+ = 2

for a2 it says "A factory will produce a random R&D between 1 and the number of devices from step (a.1)" which i read as just the number of devices used in step a1 which does seem to be born out by the example they give which shows multiple devices e.g. 10 devices = 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 etc so i could have 30/10=3 ????
EDIT==> so if a1=2 then random number here could be 2 but after you divide by 10 its rounded down to 0

EDIT==> hence the only research is 0 (from a2) +1 (from c) = 1

EDIT==> why is the formula so complicated for an answer that will always (?) be 1? And why does it mention a limiter of 3, could that ever happen?


thanks for your patience [&o]