best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

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Marshall
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best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by Marshall »

The great thing about the game is, that you never stop to learn, as the devil is in the details :)

I am looking for everyone's strategy as to overcome a enemy base, full off supplies, and dug in to level 6-9

My tactic so far is to bomb the airfield, and hope for hits on the supply depots

however I also know some prefer the port attacks instead of the airfield attack.
My troops bombard the enemy lines.
After a good month of punishment I then try a shock attack, that will of course cost a lot of troops, but will with sufficient engineers present lower the fortifications.

repeat this until fortress is 1 or 0, and the base should fall.
but its is a very very tedious and costly method

so I am wondering if anyone is willing to share their experience on this.

the base has no sea access, so sea bombardment is no option, sea bombardment is great, and you can setup a bombardment train, that will destroy any island or coastal base without coastal defenses

think about Singapore or Manilla, Bataan
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mind_messing
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by mind_messing »

Let me get this right, you've an inland base, with enemy troops dug in with forts between level 6 and 9?

Surround it, bypass it and wait for the enemy to starve.

The list of bases on the map that must be taken is very, very small.
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btd64
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by btd64 »

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Let me get this right, you've an inland base, with enemy troops dug in with forts between level 6 and 9?

Surround it, bypass it and wait for the enemy to starve.

The list of bases on the map that must be taken is very, very small.

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Marshall
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by Marshall »

But the Japanese do not have that option always
Especially in China, Singapore, Manila, these places are must haves for Japanese

Also bases with 60K + supplies do not starve easy
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Schorsch
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by Schorsch »

if u let manila or singers get to lv 6+ forts ur doing it wrong [;)]
mind_messing
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by mind_messing »

ORIGINAL: Marshall

But the Japanese do not have that option always

Yes, they do.
Especially in China, Singapore, Manila, these places are must haves for Japanese

No, they're not. Those bases are useful and good to own, but they're not "must haves". The only real "must have" bases are the major oil centers.

Singapore and Manila can be very easily by-passed without any serious side-effects for the Japanese.
Also bases with 60K + supplies do not starve easy

I disagree, 60k worth of supply won't last long when you're bombing the airbase and shelling the troops every day for a couple of months.

What you need to do is as follows:

1. Isolate the hex in question by closing all the hex sides.
2. Smash any Allied air presence over the hex.
3. Gather as many bombers and heavy artillery guns as you can manage.
4. Bombard the base for a month or two to waste enemy supply, then test the waters with a deliberate attack.
5. Rinse and repeat till the base falls.
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Jorge_Stanbury
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by Jorge_Stanbury »

Manila or Singapore reaching level 3 fort is an achievement... I don't see how you can get them to L6 unless this is a "test" game in which Japan avoids the SRA and go somewhere else (USSR? West Coast US?)

And Singapore... why on earth you would like to bypass it? it starts at level 0, with inexperienced troops, incompetent leaders, ridiculous air force, minimal "raiding" navy.


mind_messing
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by mind_messing »

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

And Singapore... why on earth you would like to bypass it? it starts at level 0, with inexperienced troops, incompetent leaders, ridiculous air force, minimal "raiding" navy.

Why on earth would you like to take it? It's defended by inexperienced troops with incompetent leaders, has a ridiculous air force, and a minimal "raiding" navy.

Rather than waste the troops (and more importantly, time) to take what is essentially a "freebie" for Japan, why not secure the air and sea around Singapore, bottle up the causeway with a screening force and send the bulk your troops to effect a swift conquest of Java/Sumatra? Once the oil centers are in Japanese hands, it's simply a case of detailing enough troops to start reducing Singapore.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that bypassing Singapore should be the standard strategy in the DEI, but I think it's worth considering as an alternative to the usual line of advance - even more so considering how the Allies rushing reinforcements to Java can wreck the Japanese advance.
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Jorge_Stanbury
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by Jorge_Stanbury »

In December 41/ Early 42, Japan can do both Java and Malaya easily

I personally prefer to do Singapore as soon as possible, as it opens the Indian Ocean.
Java very soon afterwards, and certainly before Singapore falls
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by mind_messing »

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

In December 41/ Early 42, Japan can do both Java and Malaya easily

I personally prefer to do Singapore as soon as possible, as it opens the Indian Ocean.
Java very soon afterwards, and certainly before Singapore falls

True, but if you skip Singapore, Japan can grab Java and make an early move on Western Oz. At that point in the war, the Austrailian forces are in pretty poor shape, and won't have much in the way of reinforcements. Once beaten, the Japanese can withdraw the bulk of their forces to sweep up Malaya.

Of course, it all depends on what your objectives are. If you're thinking of a move on India, it makes sense to blast open Singapore as quickly as possible. If you want to grab some of Austrailia while it's poorly defended, then bypassing Singapore is an option worth considering.
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Marshall
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by Marshall »

i agree on singers, normally singers is in Japanese control by end January, even earlier when doing the mersing move.
However china is a different ball game.

Bataan and manila I like to starve, because I do not want to commit large forces in Phil early on, I use them to conquer DEI. However the thread is not what to conquer first, it is your best strategy to defeat well dug in bases with 100K or more troops. China would be the best example then.
Surrounding the base also has the danger that the enemy will attack a weak position surrounding the base, you cannot surround the whole base with 30K troops all around, its to costly.
I usually only cut off the road hexes, then bombard with air and arty.

p.s.
My next quest will be to create a overview of Japanese planes with their stats and development years.

DR
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

Singers easily...? Must have done something wrong in my current DBB game. Made the historical advance down both coastal routes, no Mersing gambit. Reached Singers early February against little resistance, enemy had retreated to Singers in good order. Had bombed Singers for a month during the approach march. Shock attacked across Johore Strait with five Inf divisions, six Combat Engr regiments plus tanks and arty and 25th Army HQ. Good leaders, full preparation, rested , plenty supplies, ground attack air support from three level 4 bases full of aircraft plus a paradrop on Singers the day of the crossing - I don't know what else I could have done. Results - shock attack against level 3 forts, heavy losses for both sides but my Combat Engr units and tanks 90% disabled, Inf divisions 50% - 80% disabled, disruption 80+. Some bad dice rolls I guess. Took three weeks of rebuilding, resting, bombarding and bombing and six more ground attacks with remnants against remnants to capture Singers - which had not received any ground reinforcements. 25th Army is thrashed and plans for India had to be scrapped... Next time it's Mersing gambit or bypassing Singers for me.
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by Yaab »

If no HR involved against strategic bombing, bomb HI, LI and Resource Centers in the base.
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GreyJoy
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: Marshall

The great thing about the game is, that you never stop to learn, as the devil is in the details :)

I am looking for everyone's strategy as to overcome a enemy base, full off supplies, and dug in to level 6-9

My tactic so far is to bomb the airfield, and hope for hits on the supply depots

however I also know some prefer the port attacks instead of the airfield attack.
My troops bombard the enemy lines.
After a good month of punishment I then try a shock attack, that will of course cost a lot of troops, but will with sufficient engineers present lower the fortifications.

repeat this until fortress is 1 or 0, and the base should fall.
but its is a very very tedious and costly method

so I am wondering if anyone is willing to share their experience on this.

the base has no sea access, so sea bombardment is no option, sea bombardment is great, and you can setup a bombardment train, that will destroy any island or coastal base without coastal defenses

think about Singapore or Manilla, Bataan


If you are Japan, then it really depends on the date, the enemy composition and the terrain.

For Japan long sieges aren't really an option.

If you're playing DBB, forget about using Japanese bombers to destroy the supplies depots of a big allied base in the long run.

But clearly, if you're talking about China, everything is different.

Need more details to answer properly
Alfred
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by Alfred »

The OP is daydreaming.
 
mind_messing has provided the answer which the OP knew but had a priori dismissed as being too costly and tedious.
 
There are no shortcuts, nor cheap ways, of prosecuting a siege against a well supplied and fortified position.  If not prepared to spend the pixel lives, time and supply to do it properly, best to just abandon the siege and go elsewhere.
 
Alfred
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Marshall
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by Marshall »

I am not using the DB game, using the latest beta.
However, take Changsa in china for example
Or Batavia when coming over from Surubaya, and the enemy retreats to Batavia and digs in with plenty of supply.

I always find these places hard to crack, I eventually do, but I am always wondering about if I use the right tactics.

For example:
Are 2 engineer regiments enough for support?
I bomb the airfield to kill the supply, however I know some people bomb the port. I do not know what the difference is in results, never tested it properly.
I calculate I need 130% of infantry vs the defenders numbers
What bombers are the best to use, the smaller Sonia or Ida, or the Sally and Lilly bombers

Singapore for me, is a place I do not want to bypass, I always use it heavily, for naval base, and also for oil and resource drop off point, then have it run all along the land line to Fusan (yes that actually works[:D][:D] thank you Paxmondo ! that saved me a lot of shipping and fuel, leaving the enemy subs wondering for years, playing poker 40ft under.[:D]
DR
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Barb
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by Barb »

1. Avoid directly confronting it - i.e. - encircle, block, bypass, out-maneuvre, force him to abandon it ...
After all, Sun-tzu says:
Chapter III. ATTACK BY STRATAGEM
3. Thus the highest form of generalship is to balk the enemy's plans;
the next best is to prevent the junction of the enemy's forces;
the next in order is to attack the enemy's army in the field;
and the worst policy of all is to besiege walled cities.

4. The rule is, not to besiege walled cities if it can possibly be avoided.
The preparation of mantlets, movable shelters, and various implements of war, will take up three whole months;
and the piling up of mounds over against the walls will take three months more.

5. The general, unable to control his irritation, will launch his men to the assault like swarming ants,
with the result that one-third of his men are slain, while the town still remains untaken. Such are the disastrous effects of a siege.

Then you may freely train your bomber pilots bombing enemy supplies to dust, engage enemy with siege artillery and slowly annihilate him, you can even try to offer him an escape route to abandon the fortress, or offering him a bait in form of "weak" flank guard (with open hex-side and support behind). Or you can forget about him and the blocking forces for the rest of the war ...
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rms1pa
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by rms1pa »

I bomb the airfield to kill the supply, however I know some people bomb the port. I do not know what the difference is in results,

its from the repair priorities. first airfields
repair then port repair then build fort.

rms/pa
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pontiouspilot
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by pontiouspilot »

Make sure your smaller units are rebuilt into Divisions prior to attack. I don't know what "enough" engineers are therefore I always take every unit I can lay my hands on. If a coastal city (other than maybe Singapore or Subic Bay) lay on a good naval bombardment with the big boys. It may even be feasible to bombard Sing/Subic from sea. The big green lizard did it quite successfully in a recent AAR I was reading. Against a skilled Allied player who is willing to spend some PPts and run high risk supply convoys I am satisfied that Sing can be a tough nut indeed.

My IJA opponent destroyed 2-3 of his best divisions at Sing by a precipitous "Shock" attack....don't do it unless enemy disorganized or very near collapse!
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RE: best tactic to overcome a dug in well supplied enemy base

Post by wdolson »

Bombing ports can hit ships disbanded in port and it is more likely to destroy fuel stored at the port. Both can be useful sometimes. Running up damage to either will cause the engineers at the base to burn supply doing repairs. If damage keeps getting inflicted they will keep at it until they run out of supply.

Bill
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