16.3.1 Limits on Conducting Air Missions implications

[vandorenp]

Do I understand this correctly?

If you have an air group unit with both bomber and recon units in it and the recon units fly, there after in that turn, the bombers in the air group unit may not fly the missions listed in 16.3.1?

If this is a correct understanding i have to ask, is this how the Germans operated? What is it modeling?

If correct the recon units have to be moved into a recon dedicated air group unit.

I experimented and executed AI air recon over and over again until no more AI missions would fly when selecting AI execution. Then I executed AI executed Bomb airfield with feeble # of missions.

Then i started over with no air recon and ran AI executed Bomb Airfield and a tremendous number of bombing missions were run.

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: vandorenp

Do I understand this correctly?

If you have an air group unit with both bomber and recon units in it and the recon units fly, there after in that turn, the bombers in the air group unit may not fly the missions listed in 16.3.1?

If this is a correct understanding i have to ask, is this how the Germans operated? What is it modeling?

If correct the recon units have to be moved into a recon dedicated air group unit.

I experimented and executed AI air recon over and over again until no more AI missions would fly when selecting AI execution. Then I executed AI executed Bomb airfield with feeble results.

Then i started over with no air recon and ran AI executed Bomb Airfield and a tremendous number of bombing missions were run.

You would think carrying out a recon before bombing would be much more effective????

[vandorenp]

I meant few # missions not feeble results.

[heliodorus04]

ORIGINAL: vandorenp

Do I understand this correctly?

If you have an air group unit with both bomber and recon units in it and the recon units fly, there after in that turn, the bombers in the air group unit may not fly the missions listed in 16.3.1?

You are not correct.

Let's start with a very important discussion of terms, because I think terminology is a bit of a barrier with this issue.

Air Base:
The air base is the counter on the map.

Air Unit:
An air unit is the body that flies missions from an Air Base.
Air units can be fighter, transport, level bomber, tactical bomber, etc.

Ground Support:
Ground support is the type of mission that occurs without any player involvement as part of ground combat. Aircraft can always fly ground support missions (this assumes Ground Support is set to On; if not, none of these missions can occur - this is important!)

Ground Attack:
Ground attack is the mission conducted by air units to attack ground units specifically outside of a ground combat.
IMPORTANT: Ground Attack missions may ONLY be flown by air units that have 0% flown for the current turn. In other words, if you've done ANY other mission this turn, you are ineligible for Ground Attack missions.

In the context of your question, Vandorenp, the reason you're not able to conduct certain missions is probably because you have more than 0% flow for those air units.

Important: If other air units on an air base have flown, it does not impact other air units on that air base. So when you fly recon, your recon air units have x% flown, but your level bombers (etc.) will still be at 0%

So your problem with those other mission types is not related to the fact that you flew recon missions from that air base. It must be another problem (like the fact that they've flown some other mission type and are no longer at 0% flown).

There are several types of air unit mission that can only be flown by air units that have 0% flown. Ground Attack is the most common one that you'll run into.

Transport missions are restricted to being flown only when you're within a certain distance of railhead. Further, while level bombers can fly transport missions, they can only do it when they are at 0% flown.

Here is where beginners often find trouble:
1) Ground support screws up your other plans
Experienced players start the turn with Ground Support turned OFF. You can turn it on later. But since any ground support mission changes you from 0% flown to 1% or more, it instantly ruins your other plans. If there's a problem with your aircraft availability, this is the first thing to learn to control.

2) Recon escort is on
This is a problem for fighter aircraft availability. Always fly recon unescorted. I've never heard anyone lose the war from losing recon aircraft. In point of fact, Germany has more recon aircraft than they can use throughout most of the war. (The Soviets do not have this luxury, especially early.)

If you fly a recon mission with escort set to ON, then those fighter aircraft are no longer available for other escort missions. They have flown more than 0%. Since fighters are few for Germany, this can become a big problem.

3) Range
Especially for Transport missions. Are you close enough to railhead? Are you close enough to the target?

Pay close attention to the ranges of aircraft that you're being offered for missions (using Shift-click) and if the range is unusually high, pay attention. Sometimes you'll inadvertently send aircraft from one army group to conduct another army group's missions. You'll use your mileage up very quickly.

4) Percent required to fly is too high.
I keep mine around 10%. This means if an air unit has 40 aircraft assigned to it, it will fly missions until fewer than 4 aircraft are serviceable for missions.
So if you're set at 50%, you have to have at least 20 aircraft serviceable to fly the mission.

One last point:
because Germany has so many recon aircraft available, there is no reason for German players to station recon aircraft on Luftwaffe Air Bases. Sometimes there's no harm in it, but especially for the hard-to-maintain aircraft (He-111s for example), pay attention to the support requirements of your air bases, and don't put so many aircraft on an air base that you can't get enough support.

[Huw Jones]

heliodorus04, extremely help full post.

One part I don't understand:

"pay attention to the support requirements of your air bases"

Can you be more specific?

Huw

[swkuh]

Heliodorus = die Luftwaffenmeister!

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Huw Jones

heliodorus04, extremely help full post.

One part I don't understand:

"pay attention to the support requirements of your air bases"

Can you be more specific?

Huw

If you look at each airbase counter there is a support needed/used line. If usage>need then units won't repair and overall mission efficiency will decline. Each aircraft and type carries a different load, so for the Soviets a U2/I-153 (ie a biplane) is pretty cheap an Il-4 or B-25 (4 engine bombers) are expensive.

Best way to manage this is to add units one by one, review the remaining capacity and then add more.

[Huw Jones]

OK loki100,

Found the line, thanks.

[vandorenp]

Thanks very much. Makes sense. But! For my experiment I started game. Selected air recon. Selected AI. Few missions flown. Unsatisfied I hit AI again. Few more flown. Then I selected AI repeatedly until no more air recession would fly. Then selected airfield attack. Then AI. 2 or 3 missions flown. Loaded new game. Skipped air recce. Selected airfield attack. Selected AI. Many missions flown. Will repeat this test.

[heliodorus04]

Without seeing your settings, I can't troubleshoot your experience.

Air recon:
Not really to your advantage to let the AI do it, even multiple times.
Much more efficient for you to learn how to do recon early in the turn. You'll save fuel and get better recon info results.

Air Base Bombing:
Always use Shift-click to do air base attacks. Do not let the AI do it. The ONLY time I do air base bombing is Turn 1 axis. Thereafter, it is a strategic loser and tactically irrelevant. There are no exceptions to this for me.

By using the Shift-click method you can see what's happening. It's the only way to learn.

Recon:
I guarantee you that flying recon has nothing to do with your aircraft's ability to bomb airfields.
I've no idea what you're experiencing.

[vandorenp]

This was not a real game but an experiment. Testing # missions would fly. Use shift - click most of the time.

Different subject comes to mind. How could an accurate war game of wwii ignore the historical effort to gain air superiority on a front.

[heliodorus04]

ORIGINAL: vandorenp

This was not a real game but an experiment. Testing # missions would fly. Use shift - click most of the time.

Different subject comes to mind. How could an accurate war game of wwii ignore the historical effort to gain air superiority on a front.

If you want historical accuracy, read a book. The war only happened one way. Any variation from history is by definition historically inaccurate.

That line of thought ends in you being unhappy with this game. Believe me.

The system is predictable and consistent. That makes for good gameplay. You'll get the hang of it.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: vandorenp

Thanks very much. Makes sense. But! For my experiment I started game. Selected air recon. Selected AI. Few missions flown. Unsatisfied I hit AI again. Few more flown. Then I selected AI repeatedly until no more air recession would fly. Then selected airfield attack. Then AI. 2 or 3 missions flown. Loaded new game. Skipped air recce. Selected airfield attack. Selected AI. Many missions flown. Will repeat this test.

remember also that when you order the AI to conduct an aspect it uses two criteria - how many missions can I fly and how many do I think I want to fly (and where)? So it will stop when it reaches one of these limits. If the second is the criteria (& it certainly is say with the German T1 bombing) then there are more assets that could be used but the AI doesn't.

As with others, in WiTE, I really wouldn't use the AI for the airwar.

[Mac Linehan]

Heliodorus04 -

Very well written guide that is extremely helpful.

Thank You, Sir!

Mac