Amazed

[btd64]

Training, Training, Training. From the start. And as Hans said in post 19 above, it takes time. Everything takes time. If you invest in the time starting on turn one, things will be better on turn 100....GP

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Rogue187

Trying to do the turn 1 set up has taught me a lot about how difficult the opening turn should have been when I was first starting this game and it has caused me to think of a lot of questions. I am not trying to take anything away from Kull, but I am playing out everything as he has laid out on blind faith. While a lot of it makes sense, especially creating the cargo TF's, I have been wondering about the logic of what I am trying to do. Here are a few to get started.

1. A lot of the cargo TF's have long routes with one or two waypoints, but many have different waypoints. For example I may have 3 TF's from Brisbane going to LA, but they all take different routes. Is the AI smart enough to figure out our TF routes or was this just to keep things a little random?

2. Lots of ASW aircraft patrols. One thing I have learned in the forums, is that this tends to be a waste. Most people seem to do Naval Searches at low altitude to get the same affect at longer range. Is this start up guide just out of date or is the goal to train up your squadron's ASW abilities? I do like how he has the planes broken up 40% patrol and 20% train. It seems more realistic to me.

3. Troop movement. There are some planes that I have seen moved around, and they are acutely reflecting the real life deployment of the squadrons. But I am moving LCU's all over the place and I don't know why. Some bases are being abandoned, others moved out so someone can move in, etc. Is this to recreate the movement of the troops or is this just "best practices" from multiple games? Basically saying "Hey, you are going to want this here. I know."

4. Building airfield, forts, ports. There are some that are being built even with the plan to move out the ENG company and bring in a new one. Does the new company pick up from where the other left off or do they have to start over? Also, a lot of these bases have low supply and are inland. Do I get to look forward to days of red "!" all over the map until the overland supplies catch up?

5. The ASW and Cargo TFs. Do I want to keep the ASW patrols on forever patrol? I know that things will change as the war wears on, but should I keep YP whatever on forever patrol? Same thing with the cargo TFs. Keep them on the same route and together for as long as possible?

6. Full load vs partial load. If I have an ASE patrol linger for a day and put tactical refuel on the patrol waypoints but the TF is on full refuel, which one will it do?

I still have some more questions, but I think that is enough for now. One thing I have learned is to make an independent save of turn 1. I don't want to do this again. Time to go and start moving LCU's around China. Ugh.

A few semi-answer to the questions above. Complete answers take volumes, and you lose the fun of "experimenting" (cue sinking ship sound effect):

1. Cargo TF theory and practice is personal preference. I for one never send TFs from the WC to Brisbane, so how they would be waypointed is immaterial to me.
The AI doesn't "learn" from you, no. A human player does. One thing to consider when playing Allies in early war is waypointing around islands that you know or suspect have long range Nells or Bettys based there. The AI WILL do this. Pay particular attention to such places as Canton, Baker, Tarawa . . . Waypoint far to the south. If you think that's a waste, well, maybe you have some early amphib landing targets . . .

But don't let anyone tell you how to run logistics. There's no one, right way. Well, the way I do it, but there are others. [:)]

2. Nav patrols can see subs and have longer range, but rarely attack. ASW, once trained up, sees them and attacks them more often, but at half range. Do both where it matters. Use surface ASW TFs for the killing part where you can. Combine air and surface ships. Over time things get better. Early all you do is kill fish. Pay close attention to the ASW rating number for each ASW vessel. Do your upgrades!

3. Troop movement is a whole thing by itself. Lots of factors. Fundamentally though, move troops to where you will defend at first, and abandon where you won't. Allies can't defend much at first, and Japan is a steamroller. If you defend everywhere you defend nowhere. You have to give ground; you just have to. Try to extract a price. Also, many divisions, for both sides, start atomized. The Australian army in particular is in pieces all over the map. Divisions fight better when combined. But they can only be in one place at a time. A lot of early moving is to get pieces to the same base to rebuild whole divisions. Most of the nations have this going on. You need to study the OOB. In the LCU list pieces that are part of a greater whole have a asterisk next to them. (Added in a patch.) Makes it far easier to see what can be joined together.

4. AF, ports, forts. Most games start with automatic building OFF in the settings. Reason is these eat supply. You build them for VPs and operational capability. Read the manual for details. Building takes time, engineers, and supply. Climate zones can affect the time required too. But you don't want to build AF and ports just to give them to Japan. (Forts don't provide VPs) So you have to decide how long you're going to be there or if you can hold the base long term. And if you can spare the supply. And, and, and. Choices, always with the choices in this game!

Engineers are interchangeable. New ones pick up where the last guys dropped their tools. You don't lose progress.

Supplies flow as they do. Very complex, a lot behind the scenes. Infrastructure gets a lot more expensive to build the higher the level. A LOT. Forts 0 to 1 is trivial. Forts 8 to 9 is thousands of supply points. Supply is the gold in the game. Everything, and I mean everything, depends on supply. You have to make choices.

5. As long as he runs subs you need ASW. Unless you just don't like your ships and want them to die.

6. If a waypoint is at sea setting refuel won't do anything. Ships don't burn seawater. Set refuel for a waypoint that's in port. You will quickly learn not to Full refuel every ship that wants fuel. Some places and some eras you just can't afford it. Tactical refuel levels are your friend. But you need to set the Destination first, else the code doesn't know how much fuel "Tactical" is. When you're at a prime fuel base, such as Pearl, Abadan, the WC, drink long and deep.

I hate China too. [:'(]

[Jim D Burns]

Another reason to move a lot of allied land unit’s early game that might not be making obvious sense to you at first is morale. Some of your troops have morale in the 10-30 range. These guys are crap and even though they might boast 300 squads (exaggeration), they will fight like 10 squads. So get them into non-malarial bases ASAP and place them in rest mode.

That is the fastest way to gain morale and you have a matter of days or perhaps a bit over a week or two before most of your stuff will be facing Japanese combat units and when that happens it’s too dangerous to place them in rest mode. Every point of morale you can gain before he arrives is precious, so it’s important early game to get moving right away so you have as many days as possible in a safe base to gain morale before he arrives. Singapore, Manila and Rangoon are the three main morale recovery spots early game for the allies.

If you can’t find a local base that is non-malarial then try and get to a base with a combined air and port level of six or higher. At least I “think” the magic number that helps morale recovery is six, it might be nine, I’m not sure as my memory is fuzzy on this point.

Jim

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Turn 1 is epic for the Allies. My MS Word checklist for the Allied first turn has grown to 15 pages. Two years ago it was just 11 pages long. Go figure.

My last japanese 1st turn took me 13 days of hard working (4/5 hours per day)...[X(][X(][X(][X(]

As a JFB, I keep a binder of what I need to do for the first turn. I figure 100 hours to complete it. I tried to play the Allied player once and couldn't make it out of December. It was awful. I actually started an Allied game against the AI about a month ago. I think I've gotten about a week done. I just can't do it. Too chaotic. To me, the Japanese side makes more sense.

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
I tried to play the Allied player once and couldn't make it out of December. It was awful

I had the exact same experience when I tried to play Japan vs. the AI. There are simply so many unknowns it’s hard to grasp how to play a side well without the huge lead-in time invested to learn that side and memorize its OOB first. I think a lot of the “fanboy” issues we see on these forums stem from this problem. Most people who play the game stick to whatever side they learned first simply because it’s too hard and time consuming to learn the other side.

I actually want to learn to play Japan but just thinking about what will be needed to learn to play them competently leaves me exhausted. Actually putting in the work and not simply sitting around sipping whiskey thinking about it, maybe someday.

Jim

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Turn 1 is epic for the Allies. My MS Word checklist for the Allied first turn has grown to 15 pages. Two years ago it was just 11 pages long. Go figure.

Yaab, Would you be interesting in emailing your checklist to me? Would like to see if I can use it with mine. Then I could seen mine to you....GP

[btd64]

My 2 cents. I feel the Japanese player has a lot of setup work and has to do everything within the first 12 months, because after that its pretty much a defensive game. I have looked at the Japanese side a few times, but I prefer to take my lumps and come back fighting. The allies start with there hair on fire for the first 12 months and then have tons of LCU's and air units and ships to manage and setup and conduct a bunch of operations, sometimes at the same time, all over the map. The key for the allies, Preserve your forces as much as possible. Select carefully where and when to hit back and only small targets at first....GP