The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
Several of the BBs including the 3 Colorado class can do upgrades in January 42. IIRC, the AA upgrade isn't much but it gives their first radar so it is worthwhile.
Are you going to do the upgrades or do you have other plans for the BBs?
Are you going to do the upgrades or do you have other plans for the BBs?
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
I'll probably do the upgrades. The only safe use for the slow BBs I can currently imagine is NOPAC (where they are probably overkill), or to bombard Johnston Island if John heads that way. I will probably keep back the two repaired BBs for a little while to see whether he invades Johnston.
- HansBolter
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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
Made a couple of mistakes in that last post going on memory.
It isn't the upgrade that converts the CLVs to CVLs. Its the conversion that does it.
They gain a capacity of 30 and I was correct on the conversion time of 120 days.
I also made a mistake on the Surcouf.
A check last night showed it has a cargo capacity of 274. Although I have to wonder if that isn't because it is currently low on torpedoes and headed back to port for replenishment.
I also overlooked the fact that it can carry a single float plane.
It doesn't enter equipped with one and I haven't gotten around to finding one to place on it.
It isn't the upgrade that converts the CLVs to CVLs. Its the conversion that does it.
They gain a capacity of 30 and I was correct on the conversion time of 120 days.
I also made a mistake on the Surcouf.
A check last night showed it has a cargo capacity of 274. Although I have to wonder if that isn't because it is currently low on torpedoes and headed back to port for replenishment.
I also overlooked the fact that it can carry a single float plane.
It doesn't enter equipped with one and I haven't gotten around to finding one to place on it.
Hans
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
Surcouf is one crazy sub - I'll have to look into it!
Will definitely convert the CAVs to CVLs when the time comes.
Will definitely convert the CAVs to CVLs when the time comes.
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
Hopefully after you've trimmed some of John's CVs out of the OOB.
Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
Side note, and maybe this is more for John, but I feel like from a naval architecture standpoint, having 9 x 6 in guns and a hanger on a ship with decent belt and deck armor on 11,500 tons displacement is impossible.
I'm not an expert, but the armor and armament alone are close to full weight for an 11,500 ton cruisers capable of making 32kts. Add to that the weight from 18 planes, plus the av gas, bombs, torpedos, parts, flight deck, steam catapult, and all that stuff, that ship should be keeling over in a stiff breeze.
Not to mention planes have to land from the rear in order to take advantage of the headwind. What happens to an SBD on that ship that overshoots the short flight deck? I wouldn't want to be stationed in that first turret.....
I realize this is kind of a fantasy scenario, but I think these are not realistic.
I would like to play with the Constellation BCs, which were real, but those Charlotte-class CVLs look to me like pure fantasy
I'm not an expert, but the armor and armament alone are close to full weight for an 11,500 ton cruisers capable of making 32kts. Add to that the weight from 18 planes, plus the av gas, bombs, torpedos, parts, flight deck, steam catapult, and all that stuff, that ship should be keeling over in a stiff breeze.
Not to mention planes have to land from the rear in order to take advantage of the headwind. What happens to an SBD on that ship that overshoots the short flight deck? I wouldn't want to be stationed in that first turret.....
I realize this is kind of a fantasy scenario, but I think these are not realistic.
I would like to play with the Constellation BCs, which were real, but those Charlotte-class CVLs look to me like pure fantasy
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Made a couple of mistakes in that last post going on memory.
It isn't the upgrade that converts the CLVs to CVLs. Its the conversion that does it.
They gain a capacity of 30 and I was correct on the conversion time of 120 days.
I also made a mistake on the Surcouf.
A check last night showed it has a cargo capacity of 274. Although I have to wonder if that isn't because it is currently low on torpedoes and headed back to port for replenishment.
I also overlooked the fact that it can carry a single float plane.
It doesn't enter equipped with one and I haven't gotten around to finding one to place on it.
I wonder if the cargo capacity on Surcouf occupies the aircraft hangar? Let us know if/when you get a seaplane for it. I don't think it would be inappropriate to PM John III about what kind of aircraft to look for.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
Side note, and maybe this is more for John, but I feel like from a naval architecture standpoint, having 9 x 6 in guns and a hanger on a ship with decent belt and deck armor on 11,500 tons displacement is impossible.
I'm not an expert, but the armor and armament alone are close to full weight for an 11,500 ton cruisers capable of making 32kts. Add to that the weight from 18 planes, plus the av gas, bombs, torpedos, parts, flight deck, steam catapult, and all that stuff, that ship should be keeling over in a stiff breeze.
Well, in the Charlotte's favor, the main guns are grouped together to save weight, and deck armor of 50 is not much. I have to agree about the speed, however: an engine plant that can give 32 knots would be more than the rest of the ship's equipage would leave room for.
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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
looking forward to a little surface action in NorPac......
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
Not quite time for a weekly update, but I will say this - based on the orders I just issued, CLs Helena, Anchorage and 4 DDs are bearing down on two large approaching enemy invasion TFs. One is reported by SigInt to contain Karafuto Mixed Brigade heading for Umnak. And there's a lone IJN CVL (presumably Nisshin) prowling around. Next turn could be wildly entertaining, hopefully for the Allies.
If I can turn back the Umnak invasion I have a regiment and support troops inbound. If not, we'll set up shop at another base just behind Dutch Harbor and build an airfield there.
If I can turn back the Umnak invasion I have a regiment and support troops inbound. If not, we'll set up shop at another base just behind Dutch Harbor and build an airfield there.
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
More Updates. [:D]
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
Well,
John is raiding near Tahiti and caught a French convoy, sinking some worthless stuff and a few nice xAPs, which is a bummer.
In NOPAC, we danced. He sent cruisers into Umnak Island and left the CVL sitting just to the SW. His invasion fleet pulled back into the icy waters N of Adak. As a result, my ships missed him, ending up SW of Adak as they swept the approach vectors his TFs were on last turn and then moved in a way I hoped would avoid aerial retribution. Basically, we both swing and miss and can try for Round 2. I'm in a tough spot to try to get to Umnak without getting crushed by his CVL, so I'll have to think things through. Hmmm...
John is raiding near Tahiti and caught a French convoy, sinking some worthless stuff and a few nice xAPs, which is a bummer.
In NOPAC, we danced. He sent cruisers into Umnak Island and left the CVL sitting just to the SW. His invasion fleet pulled back into the icy waters N of Adak. As a result, my ships missed him, ending up SW of Adak as they swept the approach vectors his TFs were on last turn and then moved in a way I hoped would avoid aerial retribution. Basically, we both swing and miss and can try for Round 2. I'm in a tough spot to try to get to Umnak without getting crushed by his CVL, so I'll have to think things through. Hmmm...
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
hey Cribtop, I'm gonna follow this AAR, as it sounds like bulk fun.
my .02 is, watch your fuel stock at Cape Town. Look at all your diasporators headed there, set them to 'Do not refuel'. Don't let arriving refugees empty CT's fuel, rather, only give fuel to loaded convoys exiting CT for an on-map base.
Dunno what your scenario gives you for 'CD-convoy' re-supply at CT, but if DBB is any guide, you won't get nearly enough fuel. You'll want to ship lots of fuel to CT from EC, don't hesitate to use half-load AKs for this purpose. Get yourself a million fuel at CT, it'll take 18 months or more, but *don't* let CT run dry. Hang on to Perth if you can - but even if you can't, CT means nothing if there's no fuel there to bring its supply to India or Oz.
my .02 is, watch your fuel stock at Cape Town. Look at all your diasporators headed there, set them to 'Do not refuel'. Don't let arriving refugees empty CT's fuel, rather, only give fuel to loaded convoys exiting CT for an on-map base.
Dunno what your scenario gives you for 'CD-convoy' re-supply at CT, but if DBB is any guide, you won't get nearly enough fuel. You'll want to ship lots of fuel to CT from EC, don't hesitate to use half-load AKs for this purpose. Get yourself a million fuel at CT, it'll take 18 months or more, but *don't* let CT run dry. Hang on to Perth if you can - but even if you can't, CT means nothing if there's no fuel there to bring its supply to India or Oz.
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
I am not going to read John's. At all. That said, he is ambitious, wait for it, wait for it...
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
Owe you guys a weekly update and a question: Is there a justification to sortie my CVs for the limited purpose of ensuring reinforcement of Tahiti and/or the Marquesas. Stay tuned!
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
Depends on how critical those two bases are to your strategic plans (i.e. don't risk a strategic asset for something that is not strategically vital) and the degree of threat that you could encounter - i.e. can KB reach that far and strike at your CVs and convoy. (I assume you are not strong enough to go head-to-head with KB yet.)
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
+1 The degree of threat would have my full attention. Any chance of getting some seaplane bases up first for some early warning? I think John would not hesitate to use flank speed for a shot on the CVs early.
RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
The basic dilemma is this: When John raided with CVs near Suva, I thought I should run Southern Cross Force to the NE. I figured good way to both evade the IJN carriers and hit his invasions of Canton Island and the Line Islands, which worked out ok. BUT, John interpreted that as abandonment of SOPAC and is now hanging two CVLs and what looks like an SCTF in the neighborhood of the Marquesas and Tahiti, clearly sniffing for resistance and finding little. This is because the resistance - in the form of a Marine Regiment and logistics troops, phase 1 of the reinforcements for SOPAC - are being forced to loiter near the East map edge by his CVLs.
There is no evidence John has his CVs lurking to pounce or is using the CVLs as bait. If I went, I would use multiple DDs (and I'm already using multiple subs) as pickets. Not much chance of getting Cats down there. My CVs chase off his CVLs, we reinforce and prove we haven't abandoned SOPAC, we run like hell.
On the other hand, while I planned to build up Tahiti and Pago Pago, they aren't essential to my plans. My only fear is auto vic if I really do abandon SOPAC to its fate, but that seems unlikely in a game where John can't strat bomb Oz and probably won't try to conquer China.
So, what do y'all think? Go or no go? Keep in mind that by necessity some of the CV air groups are still Buffaloes. These guys are NOT ready to fight anything like a real KB, and they aren't intended do.
I have a lean but don't want to prejudice your responses by revealing it.
There is no evidence John has his CVs lurking to pounce or is using the CVLs as bait. If I went, I would use multiple DDs (and I'm already using multiple subs) as pickets. Not much chance of getting Cats down there. My CVs chase off his CVLs, we reinforce and prove we haven't abandoned SOPAC, we run like hell.
On the other hand, while I planned to build up Tahiti and Pago Pago, they aren't essential to my plans. My only fear is auto vic if I really do abandon SOPAC to its fate, but that seems unlikely in a game where John can't strat bomb Oz and probably won't try to conquer China.
So, what do y'all think? Go or no go? Keep in mind that by necessity some of the CV air groups are still Buffaloes. These guys are NOT ready to fight anything like a real KB, and they aren't intended do.
I have a lean but don't want to prejudice your responses by revealing it.
- Mike McCreery
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RE: The Arsenal of Idiocracy - Cribtop (A) vs John 3rd (J) - BTS Mod
ORIGINAL: Cribtop
Owe you guys a weekly update and a question: Is there a justification to sortie my CVs for the limited purpose of ensuring reinforcement of Tahiti and/or the Marquesas. Stay tuned!
No
You can support John's assumptions that you will be reinforcing or attacking in that area without putting the CV's directly at risk.
What he cannot see he will worry about. Use surface fleets and whatever other assets you have to draw him in.
John is too aggressive and if he manages to catch your CV's he might be able to push to AV. As it stands you are not going to let that happen as you have already explained via China and no strat bombing.