looking for allied opponnent scenario 2 latest beta CLOSED

[Marshall]

Scenario 2 Hakko Ichin latest Beta

Settings:

FOW ON
Advanced Weather effects ON
Allied damage control OFF (player vs player we both suffer from fires and flotation the same way)
Player defines upgrades ON
Historical first turn OFF
December surprise ON (no input allied player first turn)
Reliable USN torpedoes OFF
Realistic R&D OFF
No unit Withdrawals OFF (makes it more complex to manage the units)

Additional:
4e Bombers 10k altitude rule in place

I want to play to 1946 unleashing my kamikazes, and fight hard to prevent getting an A bomb on japan itself, so please only players who are willing to play to the end.
[&o]
Cheers
Marshall

[andydb]

Hi Marshall,

I have sent you a PM if you are interested in a slow but steady game.

[JocMeister]

PDU ON and Realistic R&D OFF. [X(]

[KenchiSulla]

Allied players, steer away from this.... Fair warning to new players... The withdrawal might seem to be an advantage but you have no control over your device and aircraft pools, not like the Japanese player...

[Marshall]

ehm and why that cannonfodder?

its the only thing the japs have in the end, that can aid them in the onslaught of the mass producing allied player.
its one year of japanese punishment to allied forces, after that, its 3 or more punishing years for the Japanese player to sit out.

the only thing it does is give the Japanese player control on what to fly, and speed up fighter development.

so what I understand is basically you want as allied player to be supreme in every asset, and not care japan able to defend itself [:D]

[Marshall]

I would play against you as allied on these conditions, no problem.
I am sure in 44 I would have troops marching on Japanese homeland soil (if not sooner)

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Marshall
I am sure in 44 I would have troops marching on Japanese homeland soil (if not sooner)

I highly doubt that.

For any potential opponents to this ad I strongly suggest reading this AAR first: tm.asp?m=2761796

The ramifications of PDU ON together with Realistic R&D OFF is shown pretty clearly in that AAR. I would strongly advice against playing with those setting unless you are a very experienced allied player that have lots of PBEM experience.

[Marshall]

well,
I be happy to take on cannonfodder, I have no doubts about it[:D][:D]

[KenchiSulla]

Even if I would have had time for another PBEM you are not the type of player I would pick but thanks for the offer

[adsoul64]

Cannonfodder is mine... if he will ever decide to play Japanese once again [:D]. He has to finish the work he started alot of time ago [:D]

[Marshall]

so instead of making a lot of noise about one setting, ON/OFF make your point by defeating me in because of this little ON/OFF setting
as for the AAR, Greyjoy made a good game and landed in Japan, game ends in a great fashion, and I see it as a draw.

also it was before the Beta came out.
I put the option on, to be able to the desired fighters, and mass produce with the limited industry capacity japan has.

[Marshall]

cannonfodder has lot of strong opinions and criticism always, but he doesn't put his money where is mouth is.[:-]

[Marshall]

I found my opponent so the thread can close
but I am available to start a game against cannonfodder, as allies, and trash japan before 46[:D].

[adsoul64]

As an old opponent of Cannonfodder, I must dissent. Roel is a very solid opponent and a true gentleman.

[Marshall]

probably a very sour old gentleman imho,

Allied players, steer away from this.... Fair warning to new players

what comment is that to put on someone's request for an opponent, if you don't like the settings, do not respond, don't respond like this, nothing gentlemen about this.
anyway if Roel had any spine he put up a game against me.
but then, Roel doesn't put his money where his mouth is.

[KenchiSulla]

Marshall, it is your thread. You are right about that. Merely trying to warn beginning Allied players, jumping up and down because finally a Japanese player presents himself. I'll try to explain myself a bit better, looking at the game and rules you are proposing:

Scenario 2 Hakko Ichin latest Beta I've played the DBB version of it on the allied side twice (July and Oktober 1942, and now am playing it on the Japanese side. It gives the Japanese player some big advantages. Nice if you are looking for a challenging game as the allied player

Settings:

FOW ON
Advanced Weather effects ON
Allied damage control OFF (player vs player we both suffer from fires and flotation the same way) First pure advantage to the Japanese player. IJN ships begin with very high experience so this does not equalize matters, it puts the IJN ahead for at least 18 months...
Player defines upgrades ON
Historical first turn OFF
December surprise ON (no input allied player first turn) No allied input? This means losing PoW and Repulse without you having to commit a carrier to the job, it means you could decide on hunting down allied carriers since you'll know exactly where they are...
Reliable USN torpedoes OFF You take away but you give nothing back
Realistic R&D OFF minor Japanese advantage since it gives you more flexibility for your aircraft factories
No unit Withdrawals OFF (makes it more complex to manage the units) This does give the allied player some additional squadrons and ships to play with. More importantly it prevents the withdrawal of many Japanese airgroups. You can produce more aircraft then the allied player so the advantage is yours yet again. The allied player will have more squadrons, but no aircraft to fill them with....

Additional:
4e Bombers 10k altitude rule in place This is another handicap to the allied player (Japan lacking 4e bombers..)

[Marshall]

Great at least, now we have a descent discussion and I can put my 2 cents in

FOW ON
Advanced Weather effects ON
No argument about this, as its the fun and surprising part of gameplay, nothing like a good thunderstorm to ruin a carrier strike [:D]

Allied damage control OFF (player vs player we both suffer from fires and flotation the same way) First pure advantage to the Japanese player. IJN ships begin with very high experience so this does not equalize matters, it puts the IJN ahead for at least 18 months...
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I disagree, with this off, both players suffer the same challenge of salving the ships when hit, and fires are a threat to both players, I find the allied damage control ON a bit to unrealistic, fine for AI combat, but PBEM, both players suffer the same headache. I do not see why it puts ahead the japanese player ahead 18 months, as it was war reality that the Japanese were better gunners, US only caught up at the end of 43, and then was already to start out mass producing Japan. Also the naval era is lost in this time, airpower is the word, so I disagree on 18 months ahead.. the war isn't won with BB battles or cruiser engagements, its supply, airpower, and production.

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Player defines upgrades ON
You wouldnt want the japanese player with no flexibility in plane choices, so this one is a pretty standard on.

Historical first turn OFF
Again, its a choice, if players want the original day, then of course they can select it on, i find it fun to adjust the first day, as it is an integral part of the japanese strategy and goals, you need to set these on day 1 allready, (mersing, india, DEI, australia, Manilla strike or PH)
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December surprise ON (no input allied player first turn) No allied input? This means losing PoW and Repulse without you having to commit a carrier to the job, it means you could decide on hunting down allied carriers since you'll know exactly where they are...
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December surprise, same can be set for allied, if they give input, they already know what japan will do in big picture wise, they will hog up landing beaches, and try to save forces, while the first day of the war is a SURPRISE for the allied forces, hence force Z will perish and japan can setup its main assault on turn one, of course no CV hunting in first 3 turns for japan, as they know the location of the allied carriers ( I don't mention it, as it is pretty obvious japan does not hunt the carriers for 3 turns in my view). it gives a theatre where japan can unfold its first surprise turn, and japan still needs to sink force Z, its not done for free, and weather sometimes saves the force.
Also allie dplayer can empty the ports on turn one, put up air cover on main landing sites, all with knowledge that wasnt there on the first day of the war, also I am a fair player, I wont let my invasion fleets pop up at Rangoon or India magically on turn 1, i also keep a one port attack only policy on the first turn, and i do not hunt allied carriers first 3 turns.

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Reliable USN torpedoes OFF
You take away but you give nothing back
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Not true, if you played the latest Beta you will notice that japan now suffers from failing torpedos as well, more then historical accurate i think, but japan has duds as well. really try it, you be sirprised how many duds you get as Japanese player, last time i counted 21! in 3 months.
so the balance is already in the Beta imho. and US torpedoes will improve after a year, to almost perfect fish [:D], better then the Japanese torpedoes.

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Realistic R&D OFF
minor Japanese advantage since it gives you more flexibility for your aircraft factories
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
i enjoy the flexible option, its almost the only thing japan has to prepare for the onslaught of the allied forces in end 43.
i like the tweaking of the industry, prepare mass production, think of the airframes advantages etc etc, perhaps its me, but i find a lot of fun in that, hence my choice, its not a big deal as in the end the mass production of the US will outweigh any Japanese airframe, especially the later US models.
It is a part of the game, I enjoy very much as Japanese player, hence it gives me game fun and challenge, if a player has a issue with this setting, he is free not to play of course, but this little trigger gives me a lot of gameplay fun, and that it the reason I am still playing this game after more so many years (I started with the first SSI game on PC), because of the game fun
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No unit Withdrawals OFF (makes it more complex to manage the units) This does give the allied player some additional squadrons and ships to play with. More importantly it prevents the withdrawal of many Japanese airgroups. You can produce more aircraft then the allied player so the advantage is yours yet again. The allied player will have more squadrons, but no aircraft to fill them with....
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
no unit withdrawals off, makes it mandatory to withdrawal units, so japan and allied forces must withdrawal units on time, or suffer political points deduction
So you DO need to remove units, japan as well. i think you see it the wrong way

from the manual:
This switch toggles (on/off) whether withdrawal dates for land, air and naval units are ignored.
If the switch is set to the “on” position, no units will be withdrawn from the game due to a
withdrawal date being set in the scenario data. This reduces realism, and is mainly included to
allow for play against a tougher Allied AI opponent
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Additional:
4e Bombers 10k altitude rule in place This is another handicap to the allied player (Japan lacking 4e bombers..)

this setting is used in almost any PBEM game i seen, its because the power of the allied 4e bombers is out of proportion,check the forum, and game rules in the AAR's , its widely put in place.
same as invading only base hexes, no scattered para troop drops and even somethimes max altitude bands for fighters. so its not a big deal, i dont think anyone will make a big fuss out of this one
and its for naval bombing only 4e bombers....perhaps i didnt put that clear enough in the thread.
land wise, it has no restrictions
so its naval only, and I think its fair for the gameplay.

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[KenchiSulla]

Fair enough Marshall

I misinterpreted the No unit Withdrawals thing.. Which is very silly of me..

Don't have much time left, I'll look into your responses but it looks like we are much closer in our views (but not aligned) then I originally thought and perhaps there was no need for my warning. Your balanced response here and by PM makes me rethink my point.

[zuluhour]

[:)]

[EHansen]

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