First defeat - Coral Sea

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blackcloud6
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First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by blackcloud6 »

I finished my first scenario play as the USN against the computer at Coral Sea. the Japanese got a decisive victory. That was to be expected.

I lost two carriers and the Japanese lost one. They also took Port Morseby. I beat up their transports badly though in a surface action.

I learned a lot, mainly how to order the TFs and give orders to the aircraft. I alreadu know many things I would do different the next time I play it.

Some questions:

Does ending a combat animation end the battle at that point or does it just end the animation and the entire results of the battle are given?

What does the "Max React" mean on the TF form? Is higher number good or bad? What is the number setting?

I had a surface TF encounter a loan Japanese transport and the TF purposely evaded it. Why would it do that? Can it be set to be more aggressive or to go after certain targets?

Can you split a squadron to do both an ASW mission and Naval Search mission? i lost the Neosho to a Japanese sub in the last turn and I had no ASW patrols out )lesson learned) but I only have the one squadron of Catalinas at Noumea that could do the mission.

Is there a more detailed end of scenario report than just telling what the victory level achieved and the points total? i would be cool to know what fully happened.

Thanks in advance.
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Jim D Burns
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by Jim D Burns »

Does ending a combat animation end the battle at that point or does it just end the animation and the entire results of the battle are given?

Battle finished behind the scenes, it just reduces the time needed by the game engine to execute the battle. Things slow down based on your display speed timer settings for the battle viewer, by turning it off mid-fight it defaults to a zero timer and executes much faster.
What does the "Max React" mean on the TF form? Is higher number good or bad? What is the number setting?

It’s the distance a task force will move to react to an enemy task force during turn execution. So if you had a surface group defending Guadalcanal but wanted to keep it within range of land based fighter cover, you’d set the range to whatever the fighter covers normal range is. It can also be used to keep a task force from reacting too far forward into enemy strike range.
I had a surface TF encounter a loan Japanese transport and the TF purposely evaded it. Why would it do that? Can it be set to be more aggressive or to go after certain targets?

Are you sure the surface task force was the one that evaded? Normally surface or bombardment task forces do not evade. It might have been a task force with transports that evaded and you are assuming it was a surface group by mistake. Setting a task force to no retirement will prevent it from fleeing during turn execution.
Can you split a squadron to do both an ASW mission and Naval Search mission? i lost the Neosho to a Japanese sub in the last turn and I had no ASW patrols out )lesson learned) but I only have the one squadron of Catalinas at Noumea that could do the mission.

Set the groups main mission to ASW, and then set a percentage of the group to search using the arrow buttons below. You can potentially have some doing ASW, some searching, some resting some training, etc. if the percentages you set are small enough.
Is there a more detailed end of scenario report than just telling what the victory level achieved and the points total? i would be cool to know what fully happened.

Your save game folder should have a bunch of .txt files for each turn of the game you played. It isn’t collated anywhere in an easy to view format though, but the history is there to look at if you go through the .txt files.

Jim
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geofflambert
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by geofflambert »

The scenario is a teaching exercise. It is flawed in that almost always the IJN will sink both carriers. This is only the case because the Allied TF cannot leave the map. Step 1: Crush the invasion force with your carriers, not surface ships. Step 2: Run like hell.

Rogue187
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by Rogue187 »

I have a follow up question on Max React. I have been reading through the rules on movement and my understanding is that react is both an offensive and defensive maneuver. Basically, the skill level of the TF's commander and the strength of the enemy will determine if the TF moves to engage or disengage from the enemy. ASW combat is not very well explained. It simply says that they will react to detected enemy submarines. Does that mean they also pursue said submarine? So if my ASW TF engages a sub, will it purse it automatically according to how the react is set?
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ny59giants
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by ny59giants »

SC TF - When the "Max React" is set to 6 (highest number), that is the number of hexes the TF will react to enemy ships. However, for best results here, you will want your TF in a "Patrol Zone" which can include being in that hex (or up to three different hexes) for multiple days that you set.

Leaders - To get that TF to 'react' your TF leader will need an Aggressive rating above 60. Usually you want to sort by Leadership or Inspiration and have those good with a Naval in mid-50s or above. Lots of little things to learn.

Copy this next part and print it out for further reference!! [&o]

LEADERS

For what it's worth, here is a transcript of an early AE post. Unfortunately I cannot properly credit it because I did not record the poster's name. IIRC, it is based upon an early post in the WitP forum by a dev who listed in great detail the function of each leader attribute.

Command Headquarters

Combat Commands - Those in which significant and important battles occur within their command radius. Select leaders on the basis of these priorities:
• High Administration Skill - This influences the HQ units use of support to reduce fatigue and disruption
• High Land Skill - Influences the Assault Value of LCU's within their radius
• High Inspiration - Influences the Assault Value of LCU's within their radius
• All other skills have no influence or bearing on the HQ function.

Rear Area Commands - Those in which significant and important battles will not occur within their command radius. Select leaders on the basis of these priorities:
• High Administration Skill - This influences the HQ units use of support to reduce fatigue and disruption
• All other skills have no influence or bearing on the HQ function.

Corps/Army Headquarters

Front Line Corps - Those in which significant and important battles occur within their command radius. Select leaders on the basis of these priorities:
• High Administration Skill - This influences the HQ units use of support to reduce fatigue and disruption
• High Land Skill - Influences the Assault Value of LCU's within their radius
• High Inspiration - Influences the Assault Value of LCU's within their radius
• All other skills have no influence or bearing on the HQ function.

Rear Area Corps - Those in which significant and important battles will not occur within their command radius. Select leaders on the basis of these priorities:
• High Administration Skill - This influences the HQ units use of support to reduce fatigue and disruption
• All other skills have no influence or bearing on the HQ function.

Notes on Corps HQ Employment:
• Seek to put a corps HQ into or one hex from key battles
• Seek to put a Corps HQ in the hex with defensive bastions, invasions, and major assaults
• Corps HQ should only be used for rear area duties if you have more than you need for front line duties, then use them at designated R&R and Training bases.
• The Amphibious Corps HQ function as Corps HQ and not Amphibious HQ. This applies to the I, III, & V Amphibious Corps and not the III, V, & VII Amphibious Force.

Amphibious Force Headquarters
• High Land Skill - This influences the Amphibious Landings in that units will land faster, with less disruption and fewer losses
• All other skills have no influence or bearing on the HQ function.

Notes on Amphibious Force HQ Employment:
• Load these HQ's onto AGC's in their own TF set to Do Not Unload.
• Have the AGC TF arrive in the invasion landing hex in the same phase as the first wave landing TF's
• Keep them in the landing hex until the base is captured or the enemy is defeated, whichever comes first, then skedaddle away to safety where the AGC will not get sunk. You only get three of these HQ's (if you are the allies...the Japanese get none). They will re-spawn, but better not to lose them too many times.
• Amphibious Force HQ do not function as Corps HQ. A good invasion should have a Corps HQ land with the invading forces.


Naval Headquarters
• The qualities and skills of the HQ leader has no influence or bearing on the HQ function.
• A Naval HQ is a good place for your stupidest, most incompetent admirals to become heroes

Notes on Naval HQ Employment:
• Place a Naval HQ in a forward repair depot. This will facilitate rapid repair and return to battle. A forward repair depot is a reasonably large port near the area of action. Reasonably large means size 5 or better so that damaged devices can be repaired.
• Place a Naval HQ far forward so that crippled ships in danger of sinking can slip into a nearby port within the HQ's range and enhance their chances of being saved.
• Place a Naval HQ in a Major repair shipyard to speed repairs (not sure if the HQ will exert an influence on a port that is already size 10).
• Most Naval HQ have naval support squads, so can assist in loading/unloading cargo and rearming ships.


Air Headquarters
• High Air Skill - This influences the number of strike and patrol aircraft that will fly.
• All other skills have no influence or bearing on the HQ function.

Notes on Air HQ Employment:
• Air HQ have a dramatic influence on level bombers. It is important to have an air HQ within range of your level bomber bases.
• Air HQ exert significant influence over other strike aircraft. It is good to have an air HQ in range of your bases from which strikes other than level bombers fly.
• Air HQ exert an influence over patrol aircraft. It is beneficial to have an air HQ in range of your bases with patrol aircraft.
• In Naval TF’s with Carriers (CV, CVL, CVE), the TF commander serves as the Air HQ for the carrier aircraft.

Note that the leadership Value of Headquarters Commanders is completely irrelevant other than its influence on the Headquarters unit itself. That is it will influence how rapidly the HQ unit gains experience. The only value of the HQ Unit's experience is for its own defense. Therefore, do not bother installing your "strong leaders" in HQ Units. Look for the qualities that are specific to their function.

TF Leaders
Task Force Commanders are selected in one of three ways:

• If Auto-select Commander is set to Off when the TF is formed, then the TF Commander is the captain of the Flagship.
• If Auto-select Commander is set to On, then the TF Commander is selected randomly from the pool of available RADM and VADM TF Commanders.
• After formation of the TF, the player may select the TF, if the TF is docked in a port, by clicking on the name of the TF Commander and selecting from the list of available RADM's and VADM's. This incurs a Political Point Cost.

Note: Rank has no bearing on the designation of the TF Commander. It is possible to create situations in which an Ensign is the TF Commander with ships/craft commanded by LTJG's and LT's and similar cases.

Flagship Selection
The Flagship of the Task Force is determined automatically using the following guidelines:

• Flagships are designated in order of Ship Class: AGC-CV-BB-BC-CVL-CA-CL-CLAA-CVE-DD (the list continues through all classes)
• Between ships of the same class, the largest ship in the task force (highest durability) is selected as the Flagship.
• For ships of the same class and equal durability, the last ship selected or added to the TF is the Flagship.
• The nationality of the Flagship determines the nationality of the TF and therefore the available pool of RADM and VADM to command the TF.

Air Combat TF
• Air Skill - The TF Commander functions as an Air HQ for the airgroups. This will influence how many strike aircraft will fly.
• Aggression - Influences how likely the TF is to react and move toward an enemy. High aggression can result in your carrier group running into a fight. Be careful in this selection.
• Surface Skill - To save your hind quarters (and I am not talking Russian Helicopters), if you are unfortunate enough to get in a surface engagement.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Surface Combat TF
• Surface Skill - To gain surprise and cross the T in an engagement
• Aggression - High Aggression will increase the likelihood that the Surface Combat TF will react and seek a fight (be careful... A TF for two DD's with an Admiral of 100 aggression will probably pick a fight with some BB's... This rarely ends well for the DD's)
• Air Skill - Of small import, but it influences the float plane operations from the Capital Ships.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

ASW Combat TF
• Surface Skill - Influences probability of finding submarines.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Bombardment TF
• Aggression - Influences the probability that the TF will convert to a Surface Combat TF.
• Surface Skill - Influences TF in a fight the same as Surface Combat.
• Air Skill - Of small import, but it influences the float plane operations from the Capital Ships.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Fast Transport TF
• Surface Skill - Influences TF in a fight the same as Surface Combat.
• Air Skill - Of small import, but it influences the float plane operations from the Capital Ships.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Transport, Replenishment TF
• Surface Skill - Influences TF in a fight the same as Surface Combat. Also, it Influences probability of the escort combatants finding submarines
• Air Skill - Influences the operations of strike aircraft and float planes from the Escort Carriers and Cruisers.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Mine Warfare TF
• Surface Skill - Influences TF in a fight the same as Surface Combat.
• Air Skill - Of small import, but it influences the float plane operations from the Cruisers.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Escort TF
• Surface Skill - If operating with the intent to engage surface combatants coming after the escorted TF, it Influences TF in a fight the same as Surface Combat. Also, it Influences probability of finding submarines
• Air Skill - Influences the operations of strike aircraft and float planes from the Carriers, Escort Carriers and Capital Ship.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Notes on Selecting TF Leaders without assigning a leader:
• Using the Flagship Selection Criteria above, select the ship with the Captain that best fits type of TF being formed as Flagship so that he is the TF Commander.
• Any TF that is formed to perform any fighting function should have a competent Admiral assigned


Air Group Leaders
Selecting leaders for air groups is a fairly complex task. Most aircraft can perform multiple roles, so leader selection criteria must include consideration of how the air group will be employed.
• Pilot experience affects operational losses.
• Air groups with morale < 50 must pass a morale test before flying an offensive mission. If the test is failed, no aircraft will fly.
• Air groups flying Naval Search, ASW Patrol, or CAP must pass two morale tests before flying. Each morale test failed reduces the number of aircraft flying by 25%.
• Level Bombers must pass three tests before flying an offensive mission. Each test failed reduces the number of aircraft flying by 25%:

o Experience test.
o Test against the leader’s Air Skill.
o Morale test.

• Pilot experience affects the chances to find the target in a strike mission.
• Pilot experience affects air-to-air combat results.
• Leader’s air skill affects results in air-to-air combat.


CAP as Principle Role
This includes Fighters, Fighter-Bombers, Night-Fighters, and Float-Fighters. Assign leader using these priorities:
• Inspiration – Influences the number of CAP aircraft that will fly. Influences air group morale recovery.
• Air Skill – Influences the air-to-air combat results.
• Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Offensive Missions as Principle Role (except Level Bombers)
Missions include Airfield Attack, Port Attack, Naval Attack, Ground Attack, Sweep, and Recon. Air Groups include includes Fighters, Fighter-Bombers, Night-Fighters, Float-Fighters, Dive Bombers, Torpedo Bombers, Float Planes, Patrol, and Recon. Assign leader using these priorities:
• Inspiration – Influences the number of strike and patrol aircraft that will fly. Influences air group morale recovery.
• Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.
• Air Skill – Influences results in air-to-air combat.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Level Bombers with Offensive Missions as Principle Role
Missions include Airfield Attack, Port Attack, Naval Attack, Ground Attack, and Recon. Assign leader using these priorities:
• Inspiration – Influences the number of strike aircraft that will fly. Influences air group morale recovery.
• Air Skill – Influences the number of strike aircraft that will fly.
• Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Patrol Missions as Principle Role
Missions include Naval Search and ASW Patrol. Air Groups include Dive Bombers, Torpedo Bombers, Float Planes, level bombers, Patrol, and Recon. Assign leader using these priorities:
• Inspiration – Influences the number of patrol aircraft that will fly. Influences air group morale recovery.
• Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.
• Of small import, Air Skill influences results in air-to-air combat (aircraft can be intercepted by CAP, but this is unlikely).
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Transport Missions as Principle Role
Missions include Supply Transport and Troop Transport. Air Groups include Transports, Patrol, and Level Bombers. Assign leader using these priorities:
• Inspiration –Influences air group morale recovery.
• Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.
• Of small import, Air Skill influences results in air-to-air combat.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Training Mission as Principle Role
This includes all air groups. Assign leader using these priorities:
• Inspiration –Influences air group morale recovery.
• Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.
• Of small import, Air Skill influences results in air-to-air combat.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.


Ship Leaders Ship Captains
Carriers
This includes CV, CVL, and CVE. Assign leader using these priorities:
• Leadership – Influences the ship’s experience gain
• Air Skill – If the carrier captain will serve as the TF Commander, then he functions as the Air HQ for the TF aircraft. Air skill then influences the number of strike and patrol aircraft that will fly.
• Surface – Influences ship's chance of locating a target during surface combat
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

ASW Vessels
This includes DD, DE, AVD, APD, DMS, MSW, PC, SC, & PG with ASW armament. Assign leader using these priorities:
• Leadership – Influences the ship’s experience gain
• Surface – Influences ship's chance of locating a target during surface combat
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Combat Vessels
All combat vessels with a high probability of surface combat that will be used in other than an ASW role. Assign leader using these priorities:
• Surface – Influences ship's chance of locating a target during surface combat
• Leadership – Influences the ship’s experience gain
• Air Skill – Of very small import. If the ship captain will serve as the TF Commander in a combat task force, then he functions as the Air HQ for the TF float planes. Air skill then influences the number of strike and patrol aircraft that will fly.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Non-Combat Vessels
Assign leader using these priorities:
• Leadership – Influences the ship’s experience gain
• Surface – Influences ship's chance of locating a target during surface combat
• Air Skill – Of very small import. If the ship captain will serve as the TF Commander in a non-combat task force containing and operating float planes (i.e. Japanese AV with float planes loaded), then he functions as the Air HQ for the TF float planes. Air skill then influences the number of strike and patrol aircraft that will fly.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Submarines
Assign leader using these priorities:
• Aggression – Influences sub’s chance of contacting enemy TF’s
• Surface – Influences sub’s chance of contact and survivability in an ASW attack
• Leadership – Influences the ship’s experience gain
• Air Skill – A curious consideration only. The captain of a Japanese submarine that will serve as the TF Commander in a sub patrol task force containing and operating float planes (i.e. E14Y1 Glen's on Types J3, A1, B1, A2, B2, B3/4, AM, or STo), then he functions as the Air HQ for the TF float planes. Air skill then influences the number of strike and patrol aircraft that will fly.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.


Land Unit Leaders
LCU leaders should be selected based on how the LCU is being employed.

HQ Units
Assign HQ Unit Leaders using the criteria for HQ units. As considerations beyond the HQ unit’s function, use the following in order of priorities:
• Inspiration – Influences fatigue reduction, morale reduction due to fatigue, disabled elements destroyed due to fatigue, and assault value for attack and defense.
• Leadership – Influences experience gain.
• Administration – Influences ability to use Supply to reduce Disruption and Fatigue.
• Land Skill – Influences attacking & defending LCU assault value, firing accuracy and experience gain.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Front Line Units (high probability of combat)
Assign unit leaders using the following order of priorities:
• Land Skill – Influences attacking & defending LCU assault value, firing accuracy and experience gain.
• Inspiration – Influences fatigue reduction, morale reduction due to fatigue, disabled elements destroyed due to fatigue, and assault value for attack and defense.
• Leadership – Influences experience gain.
• Administration – Influences ability to use Supply to reduce Disruption and Fatigue.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Rear Area Units Training or Rear Area Functional Units
Units can use training to gain experience up to an allowable maximum based on the unit nationality. If unit is in the rear area in order to train, assign unit leaders using the following order of priorities:
• Leadership – Influences experience gain.
• Administration – Influences ability to use Supply to reduce Disruption and Fatigue.
• Inspiration – Influences fatigue reduction, morale reduction due to fatigue, disabled elements destroyed due to fatigue, and assault value for attack and defense.
• Land Skill – Influences attacking & defending LCU assault value, firing accuracy and experience gain.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Rear Area Units Refitting
Units can be moved to a rear area to reconstitute (ideally out of a malaria or cold zone or in a base large enough to negate the effects). If the units are in the rear area to restore disabled elements, reduce fatigue, and replace lost elements, assign unit leaders using the following order of priorities:
• Administration – Influences ability to use Supply to reduce Disruption and Fatigue.
• Inspiration – Influences fatigue reduction, morale reduction due to fatigue, disabled elements destroyed due to fatigue, and assault value for attack and defense.
• Leadership – Influences experience gain (this is unimportant if the unit has already reached the maximum training experience).
• Of small import, Land Skill – Influences attacking & defending LCU assault value, firing accuracy and experience gain.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence
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geofflambert
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by geofflambert »

That's pretty awesome that somebody wrote that and you kept it. Rogue, the max react number isn't primarily about your TF commander, it's about you and how aggressive you want to be in the circumstance you're in. You also have to take into consideration your TF group organizations. If there are orders for some TFs to follow others, the followed TFs will be affected by that. Keep those things as simple as possible and avoid situations like TFA is being followed by TFB who is being followed by TFC. That's asking for trouble.

In a similar vein, you should be careful about the range settings for your float planes on cruisers etc.. Let's say you're Japanese and you have some Jakes in your TF, if you give them their full 10 hex range they are likely to encounter some pretty intensive CAP over an enemy base. That's not a good thing.

As general rules, always set your subs max react to 1 (the maximum), your carrier TFs to 0-2 unless you're feeling that you will win a carrier battle in almost any circumstance, in which case you can set it to 6 if you like. If your situation is your carriers vs. his surface group, be cautious, if they find you at night that could be very bad.

Additionally, you may want to restrict your search plane's range (land based) if their max range includes an enemy hornet's nest of fighters over some base.

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geofflambert
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by geofflambert »

Also, Rogue, if you're Japanese, the most effective ASW you'll have is air ASW. Actually that's true for the Allies but less so as the war progresses. Setting the max react for surface ASW should not be complicated. There will be certain hot spots you will want to cover, likely in a small radius, so keep it minimal. You don't want your surface ASW running off willy nilly when there's a report of a sub somewhere. They'll get there too late and likely not find a target. My advice is to set max react for surface ASW patrols to either zero or one.

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blackcloud6
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by blackcloud6 »

Wow, good stuff. I'll take all this in and try the scenario again later this week.

Thanks for the info on react. I raised it in this one I just played and then suddenly I was in fights I really didn't want.
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blackcloud6
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by blackcloud6 »

Are you sure the surface task force was the one that evaded?

I'm pretty sure both the friendly and enemy TF were listed ion the report as evading. Now the friendly one was set to return to home base so maybe that was why it evaded?
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blackcloud6
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by blackcloud6 »

Set the groups main mission to ASW, and then set a percentage of the group to search using the arrow buttons below. You can potentially have some doing ASW, some searching, some resting some training, etc. if the percentages you set are small enough.

Good, I was hoping this could be done.
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blackcloud6
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by blackcloud6 »

Your save game folder should have a bunch of .txt files for each turn of the game you played. It isn’t collated anywhere in an easy to view format though, but the history is there to look at if you go through the .txt files.

I found them and went through them. I found this gem in one of them:

"Previous report of sinking of CV Zuikaku incorrect. Ship sighted and engaged at 111, 130"

Cool. I like the notion that you will received false or incorrect reports in this game.
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KenchiSulla
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by KenchiSulla »

ORIGINAL: blackcloud6
Are you sure the surface task force was the one that evaded?

I'm pretty sure both the friendly and enemy TF were listed ion the report as evading. Now the friendly one was set to return to home base so maybe that was why it evaded?

Blackcloud6, perhaps your surface ships were low on ammo / fuel? Those can trigger evasive behavior..
AKA Cannonfodder

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Jim D Burns
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by Jim D Burns »

ORIGINAL: blackcloud6
I'm pretty sure both the friendly and enemy TF were listed ion the report as evading. Now the friendly one was set to return to home base so maybe that was why it evaded?

Ok we may be talking about two different things. During the turn resolution non-combat task forces will attempt to evade (change their current move plot and retreat away) surface task forces they detect near them, unless they have do not retire orders plotted.

During surface combats a task force commander may decide to attempt to evade an enemy task force they are engaged in combat with due to many possible reasons, but usually due to being at a big disadvantage. Basically evading during combat means the task force will attempt to increase the range each time the battle range updates (no guarantee as the enemy may be attempting to close range) and eventually the task force will withdraw if the range increases enough.

So surface task forces can evade during battle but I don’t think they evade during turn resolution unless they have heavily damaged ships in the task force.

Jim
Numdydar
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by Numdydar »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Also, Rogue, if you're Japanese, the most effective ASW you'll have is air ASW. Actually that's true for the Allies but less so as the war progresses. Setting the max react for surface ASW should not be complicated. There will be certain hot spots you will want to cover, likely in a small radius, so keep it minimal. You don't want your surface ASW running off willy nilly when there's a report of a sub somewhere. They'll get there too late and likely not find a target. My advice is to set max react for surface ASW patrols to either zero or one.

As Japan I typically set ASW patrols to react to 3 and have pretty good success. The object for Japan is not so much to sink subs but to increase their detection so it will be harder for them to hit something. So having a range of 3 still allows the ASW TF to still have op points left to try an attack or two. Having a react of 6 is almost always a bad idea simply due to the way the game engine works.

With an aggressive TF leader you can get into some serious trouble with large react ranges. Even if you think it is safe to do so.

For example, you have a wounded enemy TF you want to finish off so you set a react range of six in order to finish it off with your SURF TF or CV TF. You see nothing around that could be dangerous and you have a highly aggressive TF leader in charge, 80+. The turn runs and your TF starts to react to the wounded TF which is obviously trying to run for safety. Then your search planes find a better target. Maybe a TF racing to help protect the wounded TF. So now your TF leader things that is the TF your TF should be pursuing. Which may be further away from friendly areas. Maybe this new TF has some BBs and CAs which make it more valuable to your commander.

So you now are reacting to this newer TF. So you move a few more hexes towards the BB fleet and find a CV TF several hexes behind the enemy BB fleet. So guess what your TF will do now? Yes it will react to the CV fleet and move even further away from where you wanted your TF to be. So instead of finishing off the original target you wanted, your TF may end up getting beat up and trying to get back home being chased down versus the other way around.

If a TF starts reacting early in its move you can easily end up a long way into enemy areas [:(] I've seen TFs react as much as 12 hexes before. As when a TF reacts they are now running at Full speed so can cover a lot more distance than you might think.

As Japan I typically keep all reaction ranges to 0. If I think I have a good shot at a victory, I will change them to 3. But very very seldom would I ever use 6. Now as the Allies in '44+ I see no issue with a 6 range.

In my last PBEM as Japan I had what was left of my CV fleet holed up in Japan and was moving them from the southern coast to the northern one to get them better out of harms way. Like there is such a place at this stage in the game [:(]. I had them stopping in Nagasaki where I had, what I thought, good LBA and fighter cover. So sadly mistaken was I. A major Allied CV reacted from 15+ hexes away, killed every CV I had left without losing a single ship [X(] The Allied AG got really beat up and I killed a lot of planes but as the Allies, it was no big deal. Since they wiped out the last of my CVs.

So as you can see, a large reaction range is a double edged sword and only with experience will you know when it is 'safe' to use large reaction ranges.
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geofflambert
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by geofflambert »

If I remember to, in a case like that, if the enemy TF is wounded it is slowed down considerably, so sometimes I just try and get in front of it and turn the dang thing off. You have a much better idea of where the enemy will be than in the initial encounter.

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blackcloud6
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by blackcloud6 »

So as you can see, a large reaction range is a double edged sword and only with experience will you know when it is 'safe' to use large reaction ranges.

Thanks much for the good advice and explanation of reaction range.
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blackcloud6
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by blackcloud6 »

I played the scenario again and this time the Japanese got just a marginal victory. I lost the Yorktown. At the end of the game I could only find one Japanese CVL left in the TFs on the board. The Zuikaku was damaged heavily in an attack but i don't know what happened to her.

The Japanese again got Port Morseby. I had sent the cruiser TF up to near Port Morseby to intercept the Japanese landing fleet and they did. They blasted the fleet badly but it still go through. My TF retired and went back to port after one engagement. So I checked its settings and see it was set to "Retirement Allowed." So do I correctly assume that if I wanted this TF to stay and keep fighting that that setting should have been set to something else?
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Yaab
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by Yaab »

You could have set the TF to patrol and given it a patrol area.

Next time you can try to park your CV TF 5-6 hexes away SE from Port Moresby and wait for Jap amphib and CV TF to arrive.
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blackcloud6
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by blackcloud6 »

ORIGINAL: Yaab

You could have set the TF to patrol and given it a patrol area.

Next time you can try to park your CV TF 5-6 hexes away SE from Port Moresby and wait for Jap amphib and CV TF to arrive.


Thanks, I'll try that next time I play.
Alfred
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RE: First defeat - Coral Sea

Post by Alfred »

Don't just keep stabbing in the dark trying to find a solution.&nbsp; Try to get the facts first.
&nbsp;
There are several reasons why a TF will return to base even if set to not retire or patrol.&nbsp; Read the following sections of the manual
&nbsp;
6.2.5
6.2.9
6.3.5
6.3.6
&nbsp;
Alfred
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