OT-Little help tank guys..

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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pontiouspilot
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by pontiouspilot »

Running gear looked T-54 to me too.

Is that what they did for the Tigers in Kelly's Heroes??? Now I have to re-watch that ....I thought those were the real meal deal!
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by wdolson »

The Patton tanks are a bit confusing because the name was applied to 4 different tanks. The first one, the M-46 Patton was an evolution of the M-26 and it had similar lines to the M-26. If that movie was made by the communist Chinese in the 1950s, it probably is a Pershing, but the M-46 looks very similar. Neither had wheels like that, so those wheels apparently were some sort of mod.

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Jorge_Stanbury
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by Jorge_Stanbury »

The movie is Chinese, thus most likely they put an old M-26 turret on some Chinese made available chasis (Type 59 tank?) so it looks realistic.
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by geofflambert »

Just so we're all on the same page. The device on the turret is Nationalist Chinese. I'm talking about the thing painted on the side. If it is communist Chinese it's just been captured or it's been prepared for infiltration, in which case the crew could be executed upon capture.

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geofflambert
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by geofflambert »

The undercarriage wheels are strange. Perhaps they are Taiwanese manufactured replacement parts?

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by geofflambert »

This may help us solve this. What is the yellow arrow pointing at? Is that some sort of lubricant distributing thing-a-ma-jig?

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Jorge_Stanbury
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by Jorge_Stanbury »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

The undercarriage wheels are strange. Perhaps they are Taiwanese manufactured replacement parts?

No, this is a mainland Chinese movie; I doubt they asked their "rebelious province" friends for hardware

I bet it is not even a tanks underwheel; just something built for the movie using tractor parts
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geofflambert
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by geofflambert »

As usual, I didn't pay proper attention and thought this was something historical. A lot of US movies used anachronistically inappropriate tanks, ships and planes. Do not make me mention the film that shall not be mentioned.

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crsutton
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Just so we're all on the same page. The device on the turret is Nationalist Chinese. I'm talking about the thing painted on the side. If it is communist Chinese it's just been captured or it's been prepared for infiltration, in which case the crew could be executed upon capture.

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Now wait a minute and lets put some thought behind this. This movie was made in the past few years. It is a "mainland" Chinese film, and from what I can tell all of the equipment in it is real and not CGI. (that is important). This is a Chinese made movie so this tank existed in this form just a few years ago, and is probably still around. But it is a tank used in a movie so don't put a lot of stock in the markings.

This particular scene in the movie depicts a famous battle in 47-48 during the Chinese Civil War, so obviously the use of the Pershing tank to represent a Nationalist force of this era is inaccurate. There are some other cool tanks in the movie as well. Any Patton tank found in China was probably from captured stock taken during the Korean War. So this has to be a Chinese or North Korean tank. And, this tank my very well have been in service (training or with an auxiliary defense force) for a very long time. It only makes sense that she was a tired old girl and the original running gear needed to be replaced-perhaps in the late 50s or 60s when China was still relatively poor and making do with what they had. The original running gear could have been destroyed in combat. I suspect that this is a local modification of a Pershing tank using bogey wheels and tracks of early post Korean War Chinese design. (read homemade) Cause they just don't fit anything that I have otherwise seen.

One thing for sure, it is a Pershing tank hull and turret and has been in possession of the Chinese for a very long time.
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geofflambert
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by geofflambert »

I believe the Soviets received one Pershing in a lend-lease shipment. Could be that one.

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by geofflambert »

I can only find records of the ROC receiving M41 Walker Bulldogs and M48 Pattons. No M26 or M46.

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by geofflambert »

Apparently they got some M24 Chaffees.

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morganbj
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by morganbj »

Don't think that's a Pershing chassis with "spoked" wheels. The third and fourth road wheels are not spaced correctly and that thing sticking out above the chassis is certainly not from the Pershing line, or any other US design that I'm aware of. The chassis also looks less substantial than Pershings I've seen (and shot at). My guess is that's it's a rebuild of various components for the movie.
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AW1Steve
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by AW1Steve »

I know almost nothing about tanks or AFV's. But damned if the "chassis" doesn't look like a Bren Gun Universal carrier. [:)]
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Symon
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by Symon »

It’s an M-26. Actually a T-26 E2 when you look at the turret and hull configuration.

The suspension is a serious after-market modification. Both the road wheel and return roller positions are not what is specified.

I am with the folks that are looking at a Russian derivative. Think it looks a lot like the Sov T-44 arrangement.. The thingy sticking out of the middle suggests this might be an early T-26. It has the configuration of, and is in exactly the same place of, the #2 kingpost of an HVSS system.

Spoked road wheels are feature of Russian design. This example is an M-26 with some after market applications.
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by czert2 »

maby that thank should repreent patton, but surely it is not patton, for some reason it my head is going us m5 light tank with oversized turret. But i dont think i will be right.
Look at wheels - they are to big for any "clasick" heavy tank, like kv-1, is-1/2/3 or patton/persing, to small for medium tanks like t-34-85/t54, so onlyest think come to my mind is some modiffing of light tank.
From which movie/documentary it is taken ?
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by czert2 »

ORIGINAL: Symon

It’s an M-26. Actually a T-26 E2 when you look at the turret and hull configuration.

The suspension is a serious after-market modification. Both the road wheel and return roller positions are not what is specified.

I am with the folks that are looking at a Russian derivative. Think it looks a lot like the Sov T-44 arrangement.. The thingy sticking out of the middle suggests this might be an early T-26. It has the configuration of, and is in exactly the same place of, the #2 kingpost of an HVSS system.

Spoked road wheels are feature of Russian design. This example is an M-26 with some after market applications.
You sond very resonable, but there is one small problem - russian or thier allies didnt used any captured west made equpment, so no need to "hand made/modify" undercarriage. Maby chinese made some bastards combining russian/west tanks when they have no resources to build thier own.
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Treetop64
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by Treetop64 »

I think we can agree that it's either:

A. A Pershing with a highly modified chassis, or...

B. The hull of something else modified to fit the Pershing's turret.

It's debatable that a light tank hull can support the weight of a Pershing's turret, or even be modified to fit a Pershing's turret ring. It's definitely a franken-tank of some sort, as the turret is definitely that of a Pershing, and the front hull profile is similar to that of a Pershing. The running gear is obviously adopted from something else, though. Likely some unofficial modification for local needs, or from an overhaul using whatever locally available parts that could be found after US support already departed.
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crsutton
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: Symon

It’s an M-26. Actually a T-26 E2 when you look at the turret and hull configuration.

The suspension is a serious after-market modification. Both the road wheel and return roller positions are not what is specified.

I am with the folks that are looking at a Russian derivative. Think it looks a lot like the Sov T-44 arrangement.. The thingy sticking out of the middle suggests this might be an early T-26. It has the configuration of, and is in exactly the same place of, the #2 kingpost of an HVSS system.

Spoked road wheels are feature of Russian design. This example is an M-26 with some after market applications.

Well, the Chinese/North Koreans did capture at least one, and probably more Pershings. And I suppose at the time would be making tank wheels after the Soviet pattern. These wheels look very crude leading me to think that they were improvised and locally manufactured by the Red Chinese. It is also very possible that a Pershing could have had its carriage blown out or deliberately sabotaged during the disastrous retreat in the North. Could be the Chinese with no source of replacement wheels just recovered the tank and made their own. The more I think about it the more plausible this sounds. I could find no photo of a Soviet tank of the era with similar wheels. The soviet wheels are similar but looked to be a bit more solid.

Even more interesting to me is that this tank and the others used in the film are apparently still around and still running.
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Jim D Burns
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RE: OT-Little help tank guys..

Post by Jim D Burns »

I watched the movie, and if you watch the final battle scene near the end where the Capt. is facing the final attack alone before the mountain gun gets destroyed, the muzzles and hull structure on the tanks bounce quite noticeably. I am now firmly in the belief that the tanks are cardboard or some other flimsy material made up to look like a Pershing. Whatever tractor is underneath the get-up probably has nothing to do with actual tanks from the period and is more than likely a modern day tractor or carrier or something.

Watch from about 1:50 - 1:54 or so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggpoFDnywWc

Jim
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