::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)

[apbarog]

Is there any chance of LR capping your advancing troops in Australia, using carriers? Could you keep enough distance from the danger area for that? It would only work once, but could catch his bombers.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I fought like crazy to keep Lokasenna out of Perth. I did it, but he got Kalgoorlie for a time. Re-taking Perth through either Esperance or Albany is a bear--they just can't support a op like that through their mini-me ports. And walking to Kalgoorlie form the east takes half of forever, and the Japanese can wave at you a thousand miles out and give you a variety of presents.

Re-taking Kalgoorlie from the south is much more feasible. Once you have Kalgoorlie and unlimited Sydney supplies it builds very fast and can support lots of 4E. But it sure is easier to not lose Perth in the first place. [8D]

I wish I'd gone for it sooner. I felt like a dunce when I realized that, late as it was, I still had an opportunity there. I'm not sure a couple of months would have mattered, but maybe. I was about 50/50 that I'd be able to take Perth with 5 crack divisions, but with the 26 units that were reported there I couldn't be sure you didn't have huge forts and several good/big LCUs. I would have garrisoned Kalgoorlie if I'd thought the odds better. I had a few units in reserve in the SRA that I could have brought in, but... it turned into a smash and grab on Day 3.


I don't think it matters which direction you retake Kalgoorlie from. Granted the IJA can see you coming, but you should be able to stay in supply so long as you stay on the rails or on the road (less so there, which I'm sure is why you chose rails), but if they do and if you keep recon up on Kalgoorlie before you arrive then you shouldn't be nastily surprised. It's easier to do from the south, sure, but that requires shipping and maybe even carriers to cover the landing. That makes the long march attractive, particularly with restricted units...

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I fought like crazy to keep Lokasenna out of Perth. I did it, but he got Kalgoorlie for a time. Re-taking Perth through either Esperance or Albany is a bear--they just can't support a op like that through their mini-me ports. And walking to Kalgoorlie form the east takes half of forever, and the Japanese can wave at you a thousand miles out and give you a variety of presents.

Re-taking Kalgoorlie from the south is much more feasible. Once you have Kalgoorlie and unlimited Sydney supplies it builds very fast and can support lots of 4E. But it sure is easier to not lose Perth in the first place. [8D]

I wish I'd gone for it sooner. I felt like a dunce when I realized that, late as it was, I still had an opportunity there. I'm not sure a couple of months would have mattered, but maybe. I was about 50/50 that I'd be able to take Perth with 5 crack divisions, but with the 26 units that were reported there I couldn't be sure you didn't have huge forts and several good/big LCUs. I would have garrisoned Kalgoorlie if I'd thought the odds better. I had a few units in reserve in the SRA that I could have brought in, but... it turned into a smash and grab on Day 3.


I don't think it matters which direction you retake Kalgoorlie from. Granted the IJA can see you coming, but you should be able to stay in supply so long as you stay on the rails or on the road (less so there, which I'm sure is why you chose rails), but if they do and if you keep recon up on Kalgoorlie before you arrive then you shouldn't be nastily surprised. It's easier to do from the south, sure, but that requires shipping and maybe even carriers to cover the landing. That makes the long march attractive, particularly with restricted units...

The way I see it Nick is playing a dangerous game bringing units back in to defend at this point. If he's thinking of sending three divisions into the fray, that's three I might be able to catch and wipe out. He has to have the KB here if he really wants to defend it. I have to know whether he does or not before I go for it. A tricky game. [;)]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: apbarog

Is there any chance of LR capping your advancing troops in Australia, using carriers? Could you keep enough distance from the danger area for that? It would only work once, but could catch his bombers.

If the CVs are there, they become the ones in danger, and that sends a massive big notice to the Japanese that something is up. I'll use them if needed, sure, but not likely to CAP troops that have sufficient AA already. Let him burn bombers (and pilots) on troops that aren't doing anything to him yet. If he's already got three divisions there then these aren't going to take Kalgoorlie anyway and I'll have to go another route.

This all brings me to thinking about a plan that has several parts to it. One is in the IO. I need the KB to show, and the only way to do that is to show the US CVs. I don't want to move on Colombo right now, but I could feint as if I do. This is the move he's been keeping them for, I think.

One they're showing, a lot of other things are possible.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I fought like crazy to keep Lokasenna out of Perth. I did it, but he got Kalgoorlie for a time. Re-taking Perth through either Esperance or Albany is a bear--they just can't support a op like that through their mini-me ports. And walking to Kalgoorlie form the east takes half of forever, and the Japanese can wave at you a thousand miles out and give you a variety of presents.

Re-taking Kalgoorlie from the south is much more feasible. Once you have Kalgoorlie and unlimited Sydney supplies it builds very fast and can support lots of 4E. But it sure is easier to not lose Perth in the first place. [8D]

I wish I'd gone for it sooner. I felt like a dunce when I realized that, late as it was, I still had an opportunity there. I'm not sure a couple of months would have mattered, but maybe. I was about 50/50 that I'd be able to take Perth with 5 crack divisions, but with the 26 units that were reported there I couldn't be sure you didn't have huge forts and several good/big LCUs. I would have garrisoned Kalgoorlie if I'd thought the odds better. I had a few units in reserve in the SRA that I could have brought in, but... it turned into a smash and grab on Day 3.

Five IDs would not have been enough. In January 1942 there were already two IDs there and more showed up. A lot of arty too. When you landed at Geraldton Perth's forts were at 5 + 80% as I recall. The biggest problem with Perth is supply. You were willing to burn down the industry and that leaves supply to trickle in from the south if Kalgoorlie is Japan's. I think the low point for supply in Perth was about 45,000. I was sweating.

I don't think it matters which direction you retake Kalgoorlie from. Granted the IJA can see you coming, but you should be able to stay in supply so long as you stay on the rails or on the road (less so there, which I'm sure is why you chose rails), but if they do and if you keep recon up on Kalgoorlie before you arrive then you shouldn't be nastily surprised. It's easier to do from the south, sure, but that requires shipping and maybe even carriers to cover the landing. That makes the long march attractive, particularly with restricted units...

You can go on the rails; I did that with the two USMC divisions. But as you know air recon for the Allies in 1942 is a rare bird. I approached Kalgoorlie pretty blind. As they were USMC divisions I sorta hoped you'd stick and fight. Having the whole 4E force available helps too. But as I said above I was on a tight time schedule to relieve Perth.

[JocMeister]

Why such interest in Perth? Havn´t followed as closely as I should have lately but what troops are you using there? If I were you I would use only the restricted OZ troops for that while using the unrestricted for something important.

Perth has no value for you at this point (IMO). You should have no trouble supplying everything you need via the WC. Make enough noise to keep his troops in OZ and possible reinforce while you go somewhere else. [:)]

[jmalter]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Is much easier to build an airfield at Dutch Harbor than at a 0(0) / 0(0) dot base. The total potential seems to be taken into account when building. I'll go ahead and build an airfield or port at a base that has the other, but on a 0/0 it's really hard. I think Baker Island has been expanding to level 2 for 3 months now.

I agree, Lokasenna.

Early in my GC vs. the IJ AI, I had scads of CBs & ConRgts arriving on the West Coast, those guys spent their time maxing out ports & airfields throughout CONUS & Canada before shipping out to the front.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Why such interest in Perth? Havn´t followed as closely as I should have lately but what troops are you using there? If I were you I would use only the restricted OZ troops for that while using the unrestricted for something important.

Perth has no value for you at this point (IMO). You should have no trouble supplying everything you need via the WC. Make enough noise to keep his troops in OZ and possible reinforce while you go somewhere else. [:)]

These guys are talking about Perth. I'm just sending a bunch of guys into the desert to get shot at and bombed! [:D]

What I'm doing right now is making noise. he's now sending troops back to the region after pulling them to Port Hedland for a few months. I''m not sure yet what the next step will be, but it won't be a landing at Perth.

Here's what I have available:

Aussie:

4 -- free divisions
2 -- free brigades
6 -- free tank regiments

NZ:

4 -- brigades (small 85AV brigades)
3 -- tank units (light armor)

OPTIONS:

1. Land at Esperance and move to take Kalgorlie

complexity - low
risk - low to medium

2. Land at Diego Garcia to draw the KB out

complexity - low to medium
risk - medium to high

3. Land at Colombo to draw the KB out

complexity - high
risk - very high

4. Land at Cocos after a move to Diego or Colombo, then go to Oosthaven directly

complexity - very high
risk - extremely high to completely insane

5. Feint a force moving to Paramushiro, then go for Wake, then go for Diego, then go for Cocos, then land at Esperance, then Port Moresby, then send the main force in to land at Benkolen and surrounding islands.

complexity - silliness
risk - who knows after all that!

[Barb]

Why not use those free Aussie and NZ units to speed up your advance up the Solomons - New Ireland - New Guinea Coast?
Arriving at Molluccas (Molokai-Ternate-Menado) would make all the Perth-Darwin-Horn Island irrelevant...

It would also save your carrier forces for Central Pacific drive, while you advance along the coast under your LBA cover...

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Barb

Why not use those free Aussie and NZ units to speed up your advance up the Solomons - New Ireland - New Guinea Coast?
Arriving at Molluccas (Molokai-Ternate-Menado) would make all the Perth-Darwin-Horn Island irrelevant...

It would also save your carrier forces for Central Pacific drive, while you advance along the coast under your LBA cover...

I just have a lot of US units prepped for the Solomons, lower New Guinea and New Britain already. The beginnings of that are in place and ready to move, I just need a new airfield at Vanguna and some more Corsairs to really begin in earnest, but some moves will happen soon. I;m actually not in a huge hurry as it would be nice if he brought more in to use down here that he then had to support with supplies and lots of fuel to haul it all and keep ships running.

The road through Southern New Guinea will most likely begin in the Gulf of Carpentaria with small unit movements and air drops. I've already got Mornington Island building a field and will try to get Groote Eylandt, Gove and Wessel Island simultaneously, bypassing Horn Island if possible. Port Moresby is all prepped for and could be on the list soon depending on what I can get for transport around there. Portland Roads is at level 3 now and can begin support moves in the area soon.

The Aussie forces are a wild card as I see it since most players don't buy them cheap before they're filled out and thus don't have all of them ready to move at this point. I don't imagine he expects an amphibious move if I'm taking the time to walk, but I could be wrong, and he could be thinking like I am. My original plan was to find the KB, get it to move somewhere else, then land behind Perth and Kalgoorlie at Geraldton and Carnarvon and Exmouth. I still like Exmouth first though to push more stuff forward and see what can be caught if I'm able to them go behind.

[BBfanboy]

If Exmouth is where your hammer falls, where is the anvil in the trap?
Can't he just move out of the way into the desert and march to Perth?
Do you have enough ships and planes to protect an isolated base or two north of Perth from counter-invasion or bombing/bombardment?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

If Exmouth is where your hammer falls, where is the anvil in the trap?
Can't he just move out of the way into the desert and march to Perth?
Do you have enough ships and planes to protect an isolated base or two north of Perth from counter-invasion or bombing/bombardment?

I also tried moving through the desert and escaping from the Japanese when they landed. It doesn't work too well. It takes months, you lose supply to shoot back, the bombers just keep coming. Not worried about that.

I'm not too worried about counter invasions either. Nick has so far had plenty of opportunities to counter invade, and although he did successfully at rekata Bay that invasion and resulting battles allowed me to solidify other positions in the area, leading to the nice six base foothold I have in the Solomons. I'm not interested so much in the extended bases except for search and Geraldton to land and march back from. SIGINT tells me what is happening around here for the most part, so any counter invasion would have to be a quick and dirty affair to succeed unnoticed.

Subs have teeth now, as Nick as seen in Cent Pac, so a sub screen of 10-15 subs would be good enough to make him think twice about risking BB/CA to bombard a base that doesn't really matter too much if his three divisions are 500 miles further in the SW.

I'm not planning this yet, just some ideas floating out there. I have to react to where he's putting his main naval forces and use the openings he gives, but I'm now getting ready to be able to do that effectively.

[BBfanboy]

Right - I'm reading several AARs and I forgot yours was into 1943 already. The Allies have some serious assets by then.
Thanks for taking the time to explain your thinking - I think there are a lot of us learning things from you! [&o]

[obvert]

An unexpected trip to Paris leaves me well behind in the AAR again. It was fun though. Had a blast in a museum I'd never even heard of before this trip, the Musee des Arts et Metiers. It was founded in 1794 as a repository for the preservation of scientific instruments and inventions. It is filled with amazing stuff!

Here are a few pics of incredible things to fill the break while I try to catch up. Off topic, but hopefully good enough to fill the gap.


an orrery with pearls for planets

[obvert]

early radar?

[obvert]

fin de siècle DJ tables

[obvert]

first prototype bat plane

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]Jan 16 - 19, 1943[/font]

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Now back to the game.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]INDIA: [/font] I made the decision to pull all NE area armies back and bring them around to Madras. I need that base to continue progress in India and he'll have to make a tough choice about whether to stay there, try to support with naval bombardments, or to move back.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]CENT PAC: [/font] It seems I didn't notie a new unit at Nauru. I set a DA which went pretty badly, getting a 1:9, and leaving my troops seriously in danger. Sucks. My fault, but I guess there is no hurry really, as he can't easily reinforce or supply these guys. Eventually it'll fall.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]SO PAC: [/font] I've loaded up for a one way trip to Woodlark Island. This base, if we can get it, allows a great central spot to cover more moves in the Solomon Sea.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]CHINA: [/font] Without full supply the Chinese troops can no longer stand up to the all tank armies in China. Nick is doing a good job of maximizing his effective firepower in these important hexes on the road to the interior. In a second day attack the tanks force a decent blocking army to retreat with heavy losses. They go the wrong way unfortunately, not down the road, but across country, leaving a thin road block of two corps and 650AV dug in before the plains. I'll try to rush units there, but against tanks, it's not likely they'll arrive in time.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]SIGINT:[/font] Some more fantastically lucky news from SIGINT!![&o]

I feel pretty good now about SW OZ plans, and just have to wait for a few DD upgrades to finish before moving forward. This also gives a timetable for other moves in the IO that I can use. 2 turns to Colombo. More to Diego.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]CV Akagi is located at Sabang (44,70).[/font]

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jan 16, 43
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Ground combat at 74,47 (near Kweiyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 26485 troops, 354 guns, 2084 vehicles, Assault Value = 1415

Defending force 37726 troops, 166 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 905

Japanese adjusted assault: 969

Allied adjusted defense: 887

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
498 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 40 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 39 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Guns lost 13 (1 destroyed, 12 disabled)
Vehicles lost 112 (3 destroyed, 109 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
2840 casualties reported
Squads: 66 destroyed, 204 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 33 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 27 disabled
Guns lost 12 (2 destroyed, 10 disabled)

Assaulting units:
23rd Tank Regiment
9th Tank Regiment
1st Tank Division
2nd Tank Division
3rd Tank Regiment
12th Tank Regiment
11th Tank Regiment
19th Tank Regiment
15th Tank Regiment
7th Ind.Tank Brigade
18th Tank Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
Guards Tank Division

Defending units:
12th Chinese Corps
44th Chinese Corps
22nd Chinese Corps
89th Chinese Corps
7th Chinese Corps
46th Chinese Corps
4th Chinese Cavalry Corps

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jan 17, 43
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Ground combat at 74,47 (near Kweiyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 26017 troops, 353 guns, 2078 vehicles, Assault Value = 1330

Defending force 34775 troops, 163 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 653

Japanese adjusted assault: 988

Allied adjusted defense: 281

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
278 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 29 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 26 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Vehicles lost 59 (1 destroyed, 58 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
12876 casualties reported
Squads: 401 destroyed, 60 disabled
Non Combat: 276 destroyed, 39 disabled
Engineers: 15 destroyed, 17 disabled
Guns lost 24 (15 destroyed, 9 disabled)
Units retreated 7

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
7th Ind.Tank Brigade
2nd Tank Division
4th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
1st Tank Division
23rd Tank Regiment
18th Tank Regiment
9th Tank Regiment
15th Tank Regiment
19th Tank Regiment
12th Tank Regiment
11th Tank Regiment
Guards Tank Division

Defending units:
7th Chinese Corps
46th Chinese Corps
44th Chinese Corps
22nd Chinese Corps
89th Chinese Corps
12th Chinese Corps
4th Chinese Cavalry Corps

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Ground combat at 73,51 (near Tuyun)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 14724 troops, 130 guns, 44 vehicles, Assault Value = 457

Defending force 26193 troops, 154 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 464

Japanese adjusted assault: 437

Allied adjusted defense: 94

Japanese assault odds: 4 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: leaders(+)

Japanese ground losses:
80 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
6867 casualties reported
Squads: 165 destroyed, 26 disabled
Non Combat: 309 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 22 (14 destroyed, 8 disabled)
Units retreated 13

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
16th Division

Defending units:
62nd Chinese Corps
58th Chinese Corps
64th Chinese Corps
80th Chinese Corps
75th Chinese Corps
95th Chinese Corps
16th Group Army
35th Group Army
10th Chinese Base Force
17th Chinese Corps
10th Group Army
7th Chinese Base Force
18th Chinese Base Force

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jan 18, 43
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Ground combat at Nauru Island (127,128)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 7932 troops, 82 guns, 58 vehicles, Assault Value = 230

Defending force 10678 troops, 141 guns, 27 vehicles, Assault Value = 201

Allied adjusted assault: 37

Japanese adjusted defense: 359

Allied assault odds: 1 to 9 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
493 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 43 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 14 (1 destroyed, 13 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1651 casualties reported
Squads: 136 destroyed, 48 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 36 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 38 (18 destroyed, 20 disabled)

Assaulting units:
37th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
5th Marine Regiment
1st AmphTrac Engineer Battalion

Defending units:
18th Naval Guard Unit
Kure 5th SNLF
86th Naval Guard Unit
7th Air Defense AA Regiment
16th Field AA Machinecannon Company
13th JAAF AF Bn
5th Air Defense AA Regiment
21st Special Base Force
7th Naval Construction Battalion
37th JAAF AF Bn

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jan 19, 43
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Ground combat at 75,46 (near Chungking)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 25618 troops, 353 guns, 2015 vehicles, Assault Value = 1310

Defending force 19982 troops, 77 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 639

Japanese adjusted assault: 1213

Allied adjusted defense: 1255

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
41 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 28 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Vehicles lost 62 (8 destroyed, 54 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
2425 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 189 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 79 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 25 (1 destroyed, 24 disabled)

Assaulting units:
7th Ind.Tank Brigade
15th Tank Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
9th Tank Regiment
11th Tank Regiment
19th Tank Regiment
12th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
1st Tank Division
2nd Tank Division
Guards Tank Division

Defending units:
16th Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Cavalry Corps
21st Group Army
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/font]

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[font="Trebuchet MS"]Where Akagi is the rest of the KB is sure to be found! [/font]

[BBfanboy]

You are right about those scientific instruments - works of art while having a purpose too. My son was at The Louvre and brought me a replica marine compass - stabilized on three axis [axi ??] to be unaffected by the pitch, roll and yaw of a ship. Heavy bronze casting with lots of figures on it - the original must have taken the craftsman months or years to make.


The picture of Akagi and the carrier fleet is interesting - is there an anomaly?
AFAIK Hiryu is the only Japanese CV to have the island superstructure on the port side. The second CV in the picture background must be Hiryu, but if all the ships are headed toward the camera (wake says they are) how did the Akagi get an island on the port side? Or is Akagi heading in the opposite direction to the rest of the fleet?
And what is that object below the bridge that looks like a big eyeball with shiny surface? Searchlight?

EDIT: On another look, my assumption that the ship in the foreground was Akagi cannot be right - the crew on deck are too large in relation to the size of a 40,000 ton CV. Zuiho, maybe?

[Miller]

Akagi had a portside Island as well.