Air Interception CAP

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ironduke1955
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Air Interception CAP

Post by ironduke1955 »

Bit of a gripe here but I feel its valid, as the air war can begin to feel fairly futile, if dependent on a purely random system. It becomes to feel ridiculous if you put fighters in the air for a entire month and you fail to intercept one single enemy fighter or bomber. Especially if you pretty much know exactly where the enemy air attacks will be made.


it seems that if I know the exact hex where the allies are going to bomb I should be able to allocate CAP to that hex to guarantee intercepting attacking bombers.
After all the air war does not represent one bombing raid but a months worth of air combat.
It seems impossible that the Luftwaffe or any other air force would fly CAP missions and miss the attacking bombers and fighters for a entire month.

It would make sense to have CAP mission that can focused on one hex or one hex plus one that is the surrounding hex's with a diminishing possibility of effectiveness of interception depending on the area covered, but there should always be results from Air Protection subject to random factors such as area covered and a random results roll, but there should never be zero results.
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Twotribes
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RE: Air Interception CAP

Post by Twotribes »

I also find it crazy that one can fly a weak sacrificial force into air cap range draw all the defending fighters into that attack and then be free to bomb at will afterwards.
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ironduke1955
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RE: Air Interception CAP

Post by ironduke1955 »

I was told that each interception is a separate event so in theory the next group of attackers should have a equal chance of being intercepted.
If they are not then you were just unlucky, my problem with this is that it was not a matter of luck. Even during the first world war fighters would be able to find each other and dog fights would ensue.
with 2nd World War fighters with ceilings of 30.000 feet and speeds up and beyond 650 KMPH,
finding enemies within a relatively small airspace say over Northern France would not be a random event but a absolute certainty, with multiple daily sorties the odds of avoiding enemy CAP would be zero.
The only way to preserve your fighter or bomber force would be to keep them on the ground. Of course that would not save them from being shot up on the ground, unless you kept them in concrete hangers.
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Vic
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RE: Air Interception CAP

Post by Vic »

I think the way to minimize chance effect is to create more air units. Since the intercept check is performed on a unit-to-unit basis.

Another problem here is the setup of gd1938 scenario with really small ranges (in hexes) of the aircraft. So intercept locations are quickly at edge of intercept range.

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Vic
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ironduke1955
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RE: Air Interception CAP

Post by ironduke1955 »

Yes you are absolutely right, regards the nature of the scenario and ranges. As to breaking your air force down into smaller packages,
trouble with that is on attack or defense your small package could find itself facing a massive CAP or CAS force and would get obliterated.
It would be best to just remove the intercept check and conduct the air war as it should be conducted on a scenario of this scale, what goes in the air is subject to the overall air war.
So that air superiority is determined by Aircraft Quality and Pilot experience plus production capacity, that is pretty much how the air war panned out in the second world war.
Increase the ground scale then reintroduce intercept check.
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Vic
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RE: Air Interception CAP

Post by Vic »

Hi Iron,

Yes I see your point. But I liked the uncertainty aspect and it averages out on the long run. Thats why it is part of the standard ATG rules :)

But in fact this is a scenario design discussion. Since it is possible to disable random effects in intercepts with the current engine.
Max Intercept Range

The maximum intercept range is the lowest readiness in the unit seen as Action Points modified by rulevar 147. If the unit can then reach the hex it is in intercept range.

Uncertainty of Intercept

An intercept, even if within intercept range and with right readiness and standing order, is never certain. However the closer to the airfield where the interceptors are stationed the airstrike is taking place the bigger the chance an intercept will take place. Rulevar 837 can disable this or set the % chance of intercept to fail at edge of radius of unit. Rulevar 838 can set the % of intercept to fail at theoretical 0 distance. The % to fail somewhere in between 0 range and ultimate range is somewhere in between rulevar 837 en 838. <Not in AT classic rules>

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Vic
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ernieschwitz
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RE: Air Interception CAP

Post by ernieschwitz »

I guess we could increase the chance of intercept occuring. I´ll take it up with Bombur.
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RE: Air Interception CAP

Post by Twotribes »

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

I guess we could increase the chance of intercept occuring. I´ll take it up with Bombur.
That doesn't help it just means all the fighters will attack the first raid and all the remaining raids will come in unscathed.
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Vic
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RE: Air Interception CAP

Post by Vic »

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

I guess we could increase the chance of intercept occuring. I´ll take it up with Bombur.
That doesn't help it just means all the fighters will attack the first raid and all the remaining raids will come in unscathed.

If enough readiness and oil is available they will intercept again. There is no limit to the number of intercepts air units can do.

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Vic
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Twotribes
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RE: Air Interception CAP

Post by Twotribes »

ORIGINAL: Vic

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

I guess we could increase the chance of intercept occuring. I´ll take it up with Bombur.
That doesn't help it just means all the fighters will attack the first raid and all the remaining raids will come in unscathed.

If enough readiness and oil is available they will intercept again. There is no limit to the number of intercepts air units can do.

best wishes,
Vic
Readiness goes down a lot with each intercept. I know I have played the game.
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