Units shatter in 3.3

War in Russia is a free update of the old classic, available in our Downloads section.
Post Reply
MagnusOlsson
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 8:00 am
Location: SWEDEN

Units shatter in 3.3

Post by MagnusOlsson »

Hello,
I have now reached the blizzard season in my first pbem ver 3.3. Not only does my german units shatter like nothing I've ever seen, the russian units shatters as well when attacked!
It's getting ridicolous... I'll be happy to send the files in if anyone want's to look at them.



/Magnus
DiRaC
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:54 am
Contact:

Post by DiRaC »

Well, 3.3 edition is supposed to turn down the possibility of shattering during the winter. But I also heard someone else complaining that it's more likely that the German troops shatter more often...

I don't know why....
User avatar
Chairman
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 8:00 am
Location: Goteborg, Sweden
Contact:

Post by Chairman »

The same here but I played the AI.
Sent my files ti RickyB.

Anders
A great man ones said "Veni Vidi Vici" and "Alea iacta est"
But a lot other said this "Ave Caesar,morituri te salutant"
RickyB
Posts: 1151
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Denver, CO USA

Re: Units shatter in 3.3

Post by RickyB »

Originally posted by MagnusOlsson
Hello,
I have now reached the blizzard season in my first pbem ver 3.3. Not only does my german units shatter like nothing I've ever seen, the russian units shatters as well when attacked!
It's getting ridicolous... I'll be happy to send the files in if anyone want's to look at them.

/Magnus

Magnus,

Please send me your files on this. Are you saying the Soviets shatter in the blizzard or at the start of the 1941 campaign???

I looked over Chairman's and the results looked right for me as the AI ran most of the German units down to the low 30s for readiness, which will result in many shatters. Units above around 40 held up pretty well without too many shatters as they should. And the AI had no squad reserves at the start of the blizzard for him, so it returned really weak units to the front lines.

Anyway, if you can get me the files, I will take a look at your situation. If you are playing the encrypted PBEM, I will need the passwords for both sides to really test it.

Thanks for the help with this. rbancroft@att.net
Rick Bancroft
Semper Fi


Image

User avatar
boba
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2001 8:00 am
Location: Belgrade, Serbia

Post by boba »

I'm also playin v3.3 PBEM game and it's February '42. From what I've seen so far, shatters work fine with new version. German shatters are more logical now (well supplied and entrenched units don't shatter at all) and not so usual as before. I was also able to shatter one or two Russian armies, but they were *very* weak, also couple of Russian units surrendered in blizzard, but they also were weak. Of course, there is a BUT ;) ... In this game there is a blizzared from first week in December to mid February with only *one* turn with "better weather" (it was mud) ?! I guess it just my bad luck, altough it gave much falvour to the game since Russians were almost totaly annihilated in '41...
Image
RickyB
Posts: 1151
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Denver, CO USA

Post by RickyB »

Thanks for the info, Boba. I got a file from Magnus and from his side, things look right, but I am waiting for his opponent to hopefully send me his password to try both sides and make sure. Basically, a Soviet unit that shattered in the blizzard appeared to be at 5% readiness (SL 1) so if correct it is not surprising, but I want to see the unit from the Soviet side. Magnus has some units with 50% readiness but others as 20%, so I need to try attacking both groups and see, but in my tests the 20% readiness units will shatter the vast majority of the time while the 50% readiness units should shatter very infrequently. The test will tell.

Thanks all for any info on this.
Rick Bancroft
Semper Fi


Image

Christoph
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 5:49 pm
Location: Germany

Post by Christoph »

:mad: same problem during blizzard.
German tank corps >400 tanks, full entrenched, with air support and with extra supplies was attacked by 67 rus tanks and shatters! That` s ridiculous!!!
Gwynn Compton
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 3:09 pm
Location: New Zealand

Post by Gwynn Compton »

The Russian winter offensive of 1941/42 did hurt the Russians a substantial bit. It was a poorly coordinated offensive which ended up floundering due to it's own poor planning.

Gwynn
"History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace, and revolution continue on forever."
Christoph
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 5:49 pm
Location: Germany

Post by Christoph »

Hey Gwynn, same thing happened to further 2 tank corps, so please tell this to my PBEM opponent and the computer ;)

Since 6 or more moves just blizzard, no normal winter, as reporter by others.

Was this version tested befor release?
RickyB
Posts: 1151
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Denver, CO USA

Post by RickyB »

Originally posted by Christoph
Hey Gwynn, same thing happened to further 2 tank corps, so please tell this to my PBEM opponent and the computer ;)

Since 6 or more moves just blizzard, no normal winter, as reporter by others.

Was this version tested befor release?

Yeah, it was tested, and I still have not found any problems that are outside of what is planned. When you say you had a panzer corps fully entrenched and "extra" supplies, does that mean you gave it special supply? And if so, how many ops points were left in the HQ at the end of the turn? And what was the readiness of the panzers overall?

I am working with a file sent me by a player and haven't had time to fully dig into it, but so far I see shatters where I would expect.
Rick Bancroft
Semper Fi


Image

dtx
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 6:24 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

No problems

Post by dtx »

I haven't seen unusual shatters. The AI does know when a player's units have an HQ with zero OPs and will attack and shatter the unit (this has always been true in the various versions of WIR). I think this is an OK cheat by the AI since it is very bad practice to completely deplete OPs in an HQ.

OP depletion is the war equivalent of commanders becoming so involved in other things that the units in the field as essentially leaderless. While shattering is an extreme outcome, it works in the context of WIR. Also, in the real world, small well-led units have been able to rout large poorly led foes.

In game terms, OP depletion to zero usually results from overuse of special supply - (i.e., the commander was overly pre-occupied with logistics and ignored the fighting units.)

As before, units on either side with a combat value of 20 or less (if I remember correctly) and bad HQ leaders are more likely to shatter.
Christoph
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 5:49 pm
Location: Germany

Post by Christoph »

I see, I misunderstood the special support function, thanks.
RickyB
Posts: 1151
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Denver, CO USA

Post by RickyB »

Originally posted by Christoph
I see, I misunderstood the special support function, thanks.

Christoph,

Does that mean you did have the ops points down fairly low? Problems start when they drop below 50 and get severe below 20 or so.
Rick Bancroft
Semper Fi


Image

Christoph
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 5:49 pm
Location: Germany

Post by Christoph »

I tried to keep the readyness of my corps high with extra supplies, so I get the HQ empty.
Post Reply

Return to “War In Russia: The Matrix Edition”