Pelton(GHC) vs Saper Resigned GHC Victory T-36
Moderators: Joel Billings, Sabre21
RE: Pelton vs Saper
It's a strategy I first saw Q-ball use in some earlier AAR's in AGS (using worthless Axis allies air units/bases) to good effect. I do not believe partisan units can even spawn adjacent to this protective line (units with no ZOC.)
It's depressing when you seemingly have all Russian cities adequately garrisoned and those suckers pop up. A hookup twix all front railnets, particularly AGC/AGS, is a key focus pre-blizzard for a more stable supply line.
Pelton covers all bases. So does Sapper.
It's depressing when you seemingly have all Russian cities adequately garrisoned and those suckers pop up. A hookup twix all front railnets, particularly AGC/AGS, is a key focus pre-blizzard for a more stable supply line.
Pelton covers all bases. So does Sapper.
WITE is a good addiction with no cure.
RE: Pelton vs Saper
ORIGINAL: HITMAN202
It's a strategy I first saw Q-ball use in some earlier AAR's in AGS (using worthless Axis allies air units/bases) to good effect. I do not believe partisan units can even spawn adjacent to this protective line (units with no ZOC.)
It's depressing when you seemingly have all Russian cities adequately garrisoned and those suckers pop up. A hookup twix all front railnets, particularly AGC/AGS, is a key focus pre-blizzard for a more stable supply line.
Pelton covers all bases. So does Sapper.
I have had 1 rail line hit in center, but center has 2 lines so no biggy so far.
I am about to tie 2 together so I be 100% cool next turn.
South line has split so it good down there.
Saper is great very good game, but his OOB is huge.
As you know land means little.
Beta Tester WitW & WitE
RE: Pelton vs Saper
Turn 9 GHC Armaments: 73,000 VP: 186
Armament Pts Locked= Destroyed = 23
Heavy Industry Locked= Destroyed = 41
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Total dead: 1,271,000 Russian losses this turn: 111,000
Russian OOB: 4,597,000
A net gain of: +12,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,468,000 ——- Ready Rifle Squads:
GHC net OOB change: +20,000
Air War
Ratio last turn: 4 : 1
GHC loses: 147
SHC loses: 560
Total GHC loses: 869
Total SHC loses: 7348
Total GHC Planes: 2958 -93
Total SHC Planes: 5214 -366
Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 1--------2
Total
SHC------27--------13
HQBU’s
This turn; 1
Total to date: 10
Saper is still all in and AGN keeps driving forward. The war in the air is as intense as the war on the ground. SHC gets reserve reactions every battle but so does GHC. Defending CV values are starting to drop. I am sending all arriving ground and air units to AGN.
Armament Pts Locked= Destroyed = 23
Heavy Industry Locked= Destroyed = 41
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Total dead: 1,271,000 Russian losses this turn: 111,000
Russian OOB: 4,597,000
A net gain of: +12,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,468,000 ——- Ready Rifle Squads:
GHC net OOB change: +20,000
Air War
Ratio last turn: 4 : 1
GHC loses: 147
SHC loses: 560
Total GHC loses: 869
Total SHC loses: 7348
Total GHC Planes: 2958 -93
Total SHC Planes: 5214 -366
Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 1--------2
Total
SHC------27--------13
HQBU’s
This turn; 1
Total to date: 10
Saper is still all in and AGN keeps driving forward. The war in the air is as intense as the war on the ground. SHC gets reserve reactions every battle but so does GHC. Defending CV values are starting to drop. I am sending all arriving ground and air units to AGN.
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Beta Tester WitW & WitE
RE: Pelton vs Saper
AGC: Saper again with draws east and I keep walking east, panzers clear the free hexes so infantry can move forward quickly.
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Beta Tester WitW & WitE
RE: Pelton vs Saper
AGS: Saper keeps running and I keep moving forward farming morale.
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Beta Tester WitW & WitE
RE: Pelton vs Saper
Turn 10 GHC Armaments: 78,000 VP: 186
Armament Pts Locked= Destroyed = 23
Heavy Industry Locked= Destroyed = 41
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Total dead: 1,371,000 Russian losses this turn: 100,000
Russian OOB: 4,623,000
A net gain of: +26,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,427,000 ——- Ready Rifle Squads:
GHC net OOB change: -41,000
Air War
Ratio last turn: 2.75 : 1
GHC loses: 200
SHC loses: 550
Total GHC loses: 1069
Total SHC loses: 7903
Total GHC Planes: 2844 -118
Total SHC Planes: 5214 +108
Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 1--------0
Total
SHC------28--------13
HQBU’s
This turn; 1
Total to date: 11
Armament Pts Locked= Destroyed = 23
Heavy Industry Locked= Destroyed = 41
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Total dead: 1,371,000 Russian losses this turn: 100,000
Russian OOB: 4,623,000
A net gain of: +26,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,427,000 ——- Ready Rifle Squads:
GHC net OOB change: -41,000
Air War
Ratio last turn: 2.75 : 1
GHC loses: 200
SHC loses: 550
Total GHC loses: 1069
Total SHC loses: 7903
Total GHC Planes: 2844 -118
Total SHC Planes: 5214 +108
Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 1--------0
Total
SHC------28--------13
HQBU’s
This turn; 1
Total to date: 11
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Beta Tester WitW & WitE
RE: Pelton vs Saper
AGC
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Beta Tester WitW & WitE
RE: Pelton vs Saper
Turn 11 GHC Armaments: 79,000 VP: 193
Armament Pts Locked= Destroyed = 23
Heavy Industry Locked= Destroyed = 41
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Total dead: 1,405,000 Russian losses this turn: 135,000
Russian OOB: 4,731,000
A net gain of: +108,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,414,000 ——- Ready Rifle Squads:
GHC net OOB change: -13,000
Permanent Trucks Lost: 33,617
Air War
Ratio last turn: 2.6 : 1
GHC loses: 164
SHC loses: 432
Total GHC loses: 1233
Total SHC loses: 8335
Total GHC Planes: 2842 -1
Total SHC Planes: 5659 +445
Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 2--------0
Total
SHC------30--------13
HQBU’s
This turn; 0
Total to date: 11
Armament Pts Locked= Destroyed = 23
Heavy Industry Locked= Destroyed = 41
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Total dead: 1,405,000 Russian losses this turn: 135,000
Russian OOB: 4,731,000
A net gain of: +108,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,414,000 ——- Ready Rifle Squads:
GHC net OOB change: -13,000
Permanent Trucks Lost: 33,617
Air War
Ratio last turn: 2.6 : 1
GHC loses: 164
SHC loses: 432
Total GHC loses: 1233
Total SHC loses: 8335
Total GHC Planes: 2842 -1
Total SHC Planes: 5659 +445
Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 2--------0
Total
SHC------30--------13
HQBU’s
This turn; 0
Total to date: 11
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Beta Tester WitW & WitE
RE: Pelton vs Saper
AGC
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Beta Tester WitW & WitE
RE: Pelton vs Saper
Turn 12 GHC Armaments: 77,000 VP: 194
Armament Pts Locked= Destroyed = 23
Heavy Industry Locked= Destroyed = 41
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Total dead: 1,500,000 Russian losses this turn: 95,000
Russian OOB: 4,837,000
A net gain of: +108,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,414,000 ——- Ready Rifle Squads:
GHC net OOB change: -22,000
Permanent Trucks Lost: 36831
Air War
Ratio last turn: 3 : 1
GHC loses: 239
SHC loses: 696
Total GHC loses: 1472
Total SHC loses: 9031
Total GHC Planes: 2674 -168
Total SHC Planes: 5677 +18
Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 4--------4
Total
SHC------34--------14
HQBU’s
This turn; 1
Total to date: 12
AGN is starting to build stream. Instead of winning 2-3 battles per turn the count is going up 5-6 per turn.
Not sure if I have enough time to finish Leningrad off before winter.
Armament Pts Locked= Destroyed = 23
Heavy Industry Locked= Destroyed = 41
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Total dead: 1,500,000 Russian losses this turn: 95,000
Russian OOB: 4,837,000
A net gain of: +108,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,414,000 ——- Ready Rifle Squads:
GHC net OOB change: -22,000
Permanent Trucks Lost: 36831
Air War
Ratio last turn: 3 : 1
GHC loses: 239
SHC loses: 696
Total GHC loses: 1472
Total SHC loses: 9031
Total GHC Planes: 2674 -168
Total SHC Planes: 5677 +18
Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 4--------4
Total
SHC------34--------14
HQBU’s
This turn; 1
Total to date: 12
AGN is starting to build stream. Instead of winning 2-3 battles per turn the count is going up 5-6 per turn.
Not sure if I have enough time to finish Leningrad off before winter.
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Beta Tester WitW & WitE
RE: Pelton vs Saper
AGC Saper is holding his ground now tring to make me fight for every hex.
Starting to see some high CV stacks. Most of my Panzers and MoT divisions are here now.
I will try and gain as much ground as possible before winter.
Starting to see some high CV stacks. Most of my Panzers and MoT divisions are here now.
I will try and gain as much ground as possible before winter.
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Beta Tester WitW & WitE
RE: Pelton vs Saper
AGS again Saper is fighting forward and not running, but over all his forces are weak so I should be able to get to Rostov.
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Beta Tester WitW & WitE
RE: Pelton vs Saper
Turn 13 GHC Armaments: 72,000 VP: 194
Armament Pts Locked= Destroyed = 23
Heavy Industry Locked= Destroyed = 41
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Total dead: 1,552,000 Russian losses this turn: 52,000
Russian OOB: 4,905,000
A net gain of: +93,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,426,000 ——- Ready Rifle Squads:
GHC net OOB change: 12,000
Permanent Trucks Lost: 36831
Air War
Ratio last turn: 2 : 1
GHC loses: 290
SHC loses: 542
Total GHC loses: 1764
Total SHC loses: 9603
Total GHC Planes: 2445 -230
Total SHC Planes: 5632 -45
Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 1--------1
Total
SHC------35--------15
HQBU’s
This turn; 0
Total to date: 12
Armament Pts Locked= Destroyed = 23
Heavy Industry Locked= Destroyed = 41
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Total dead: 1,552,000 Russian losses this turn: 52,000
Russian OOB: 4,905,000
A net gain of: +93,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,426,000 ——- Ready Rifle Squads:
GHC net OOB change: 12,000
Permanent Trucks Lost: 36831
Air War
Ratio last turn: 2 : 1
GHC loses: 290
SHC loses: 542
Total GHC loses: 1764
Total SHC loses: 9603
Total GHC Planes: 2445 -230
Total SHC Planes: 5632 -45
Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 1--------1
Total
SHC------35--------15
HQBU’s
This turn; 0
Total to date: 12
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Beta Tester WitW & WitE
RE: Pelton vs Saper
AGC
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Beta Tester WitW & WitE
RE: Pelton vs Saper
A chance for pocket in the south? Leningrad is a slugfest, but you're inching ever closer. What about Moscow? He knows you won't switch target until Leningrad holds (unlike real Germany), thus his defenses there may be weaker, as he is not expecting a blow until battle in the north is on.
RE: Pelton vs Saper
ORIGINAL: morvael
A chance for pocket in the south? Leningrad is a slugfest, but you're inching ever closer. What about Moscow?
He knows you won't switch target until Leningrad holds (unlike real Germany),
thus his defenses there may be weaker, as he is not expecting a blow until battle in the north is on.
I just finished turn 17 and Saper only has 1.8 million in loses.
The days of 3+ million SHC KIA are long gone. smokendave will be around 2 million.
HQBU has been nerfed to death already.
Anyone losing 2.5 to 3.0 million SHC KIA needs to get some skills.
Its next to impossible now to get a pocket of any size vs good+ SHC players.
Sure GHC can get better then historical taking ground but less then 1/2 historical losses.
With out the Lvov pocket SHC losses would be 1 to 1.5 million heheheh
Pockets are impossible vs Saper he can open any pocket he wants, as making air tight pockets is impossible now because of horrible logistics.
SHC players can simply stay just out side the reach of the chain.
Leningrad will fall next yr mybee.
Moscow has NEVER fallen after 1.06 nerfs to HQBU's - vs an average SHC player.
Morvael sorry bro but Saper is 2x as good as you or any tester. He is weak NO WHERE. I hear people cring a river about HQBU and 60% TOE rules, but the fact is Saper has had zero drop off in CV's and is weak no wheres.
I will post all the turn 1-17 info asap.
Saper, MT, Bomazz, Katza, Hoooper and a few others are in a class above all others playing SHC.
1.07 simply dumbed down the game and ruined it.
1.08 is a step in the right direction, but the real problem is the combat system as it simply doe not reflex historical losses.
1942 and 43 saw very few captured Russians yet they lost more men in 42 and 43 then in 41.
Beta Tester WitW & WitE
RE: Pelton vs Saper
Turn 18 GHC Armaments: 19,000 VP: 207
Armament Pts Destroyed = 23
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Total dead: 1,889,000 Russian losses this turn: 32,000
Russian OOB: 5,472,000
A net gain of: +162,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,397,000 ——- Ready Rifle Squads:
GHC net OOB change: -11,000
Air War
Ratio last turn: 2 : 1
GHC loses: 120
SHC loses: 254
Total GHC loses: 2964
Total SHC loses: 11459
Total GHC Planes: 2072
Total SHC Planes: 6201
Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 9--------8
Total
SHC------63--------32
HQBU’s
This turn; 0
Total to date: 15
Over all not a very good summer of 1941.
1. Saper managed to never really have a drop off in CV's dispite what I have seen posted on forums about sinking CV pts..
2. Armament loses were low so no armament crunch coming.
3. SHC KIA are horribly low, this is really the only stat that matters after industry.
4. Saper again, dispite all the talk of how great AA works bombs my airfields every turn and still keeps ratio at 2 to 1 which is not historical at all.
I stack my airfields with a LW HQ with 9, yes 9 AA units and still the airfields get raped. AA guns still suck cow balls.
5. Saper managed without 1v1=2v1 to do great counter attacking to farm morale and nerf GHC morale.
This coupled with the constant losses of planes has managed to tank my armament points.19k vs 80k playing smokendave.
Once you add it all up even with a mild winter Saper will beable to have a very effective winter offensive if he wants or simply dig in.
As far a ground taken goes I would say I am historical in the north.
Armament Pts Destroyed = 23
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Total dead: 1,889,000 Russian losses this turn: 32,000
Russian OOB: 5,472,000
A net gain of: +162,000
Russian units currently in a pocket:
GHC OOB: 3,397,000 ——- Ready Rifle Squads:
GHC net OOB change: -11,000
Air War
Ratio last turn: 2 : 1
GHC loses: 120
SHC loses: 254
Total GHC loses: 2964
Total SHC loses: 11459
Total GHC Planes: 2072
Total SHC Planes: 6201
Attacks won lost this turn
SHC------ 9--------8
Total
SHC------63--------32
HQBU’s
This turn; 0
Total to date: 15
Over all not a very good summer of 1941.
1. Saper managed to never really have a drop off in CV's dispite what I have seen posted on forums about sinking CV pts..
2. Armament loses were low so no armament crunch coming.
3. SHC KIA are horribly low, this is really the only stat that matters after industry.
4. Saper again, dispite all the talk of how great AA works bombs my airfields every turn and still keeps ratio at 2 to 1 which is not historical at all.
I stack my airfields with a LW HQ with 9, yes 9 AA units and still the airfields get raped. AA guns still suck cow balls.
5. Saper managed without 1v1=2v1 to do great counter attacking to farm morale and nerf GHC morale.
This coupled with the constant losses of planes has managed to tank my armament points.19k vs 80k playing smokendave.
Once you add it all up even with a mild winter Saper will beable to have a very effective winter offensive if he wants or simply dig in.
As far a ground taken goes I would say I am historical in the north.
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Beta Tester WitW & WitE