Capturing Sevastopol in 1943

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tex_ka95
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Capturing Sevastopol in 1943

Post by tex_ka95 »

Comrade's, I'm playing the 41-45 campaign as the German's. it's the Summer of 43 and I am trying to capture Sevastopol. I've captured all of the Crimea except the Sevastopol hex and the two hexes that border it. in those two hexes the Sovs have 6 rifle corps dug in 4+.

I can only get 6 of my divisions to attack either stack on any turn and I am at best even with the sovs numerically in those attacks.

Is this situation hopeless? Any tips? No flanking maneuvers this time. should I just load up my corps with as much arty as possible and throw myself at the sovs? my corps are already pretty strong in artillery and I have 300 bombers in the immediate area. Would bombing the crap out of the docks help or does that make no difference?

Thanks
jwolf
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RE: Capturing Sevastopol in 1943

Post by jwolf »

You can have reserve units on offense so in theory you could have more than 6 divisions attacking. But even so, against fortified triple stacks of rifle corps I assume it is hopeless.
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heliodorus04
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RE: Capturing Sevastopol in 1943

Post by heliodorus04 »

It is not hopeless, but it takes fine management of your movement points.

Concept 1: You want to attack from two hexes into one hex more than once. This means your first attackers are going to (likely) have to move OUT of the hex they attacked from so that a new, fresh unit (i.e. capable of Deliberate Attack after it arrives into the hex) can move in and conduct another set of deliberate attacks.

Concept 2: You need to have a third group of units that con move in to the now vacated hex (in the event that none of the units has enough MPs to enter the hex you have by now cleared. Usually this means that motorized units are necessary at some point.

Concept 3: For tough, fortified positions (Attacking across the river at Leningrad is a classic) you need to maximize your Support Unit dispersal. You need to have good Morale and Initiative Leaders. You need engineers embedded in primary divisions. Stg SUs are also very useful to have imbedded in infantry divisions for these heavy attack spots. You need 3 to 4 artillery units in each HQ involved in the attack. You want your Army HQs within 5 hexes of the battle, also with some artillery units. The hope is to have multiple HQs committing multiple SUs to each combat.

Concept 4: One or two Ground Attack by your aircraft can do WONDERS to disrupt units in the defender's hex, and while it won't show as "killed" during the ground attack, they won't fire during the ensuing combat or combats, meaning actual CVs will be reduced from listed CVs.

Concept 5: As others have said, putting a unit in reserve prior to its movement enables you to get more than 3 units per hex attacking. However, this can mean that a unit which you intended to attack in the second part of your turn will instead spend its MPs in reserve movement. It CAN be a two-edged sword.

Concept 6: Sevastapol is a tough nut to crack, for sure. I will go to great lengths to take Sevastapol in 1941, allocating a single rail FBD to shorten the supply length (and thus maximize MPs available for deliberate attacks). Supply lines are critical to taking it at all.

I hope this helps.
Fall 2021-Playing: Stalingrad'42 (GMT); Advanced Squad Leader,
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tex_ka95
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RE: Capturing Sevastopol in 1943

Post by tex_ka95 »

Thanks helio. This is very helpful.
swkuh
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RE: Capturing Sevastopol in 1943

Post by swkuh »

Must say this discussion is interesting from standpoint of siege management, but, pray tell, why is S'pol worth the trouble. Secure & seal the portals to Crimea and get on to other fronts.
carlkay58
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RE: Capturing Sevastopol in 1943

Post by carlkay58 »

Because the Crimean peninsula is within Soviet long range bomber distance of the Ploesti oil fields? These fields represent a large portion of the oil production of the Axis and are vital to keep working at peak volume for as long as possible.
tex_ka95
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RE: Capturing Sevastopol in 1943

Post by tex_ka95 »

Yes, historically the Germans were afraid of the sovs using the Crimea as a staging point for attacks on Ploesti. But from the game point of view, rrbill is right, there probably is little to no value in capturing S'pol and certainly no chance the AI will try to bomb Ploesti. What sucks is that I'll still need to use at least 6 divisions just to seal off S'pol alone which is almost half the force I have there trying to capture it.

The fall mud is only 5-6 weeks away so I'll see what I can accomplish during that time. Otherwise I'll move on and try to put that final dagger in the soviet heart elsewhere. It clearly isn't going to happen in the Crimea.

Thanks for all the input.
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heliodorus04
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RE: Capturing Sevastopol in 1943

Post by heliodorus04 »





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SevastapolT16.jpg
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Fall 2021-Playing: Stalingrad'42 (GMT); Advanced Squad Leader,
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heliodorus04
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RE: Capturing Sevastopol in 1943

Post by heliodorus04 »

Against the AI, the primary reason to attack there is that the AI knows how to defend there almost as well as a human.
For that reason alone, defeating its AI defense is 'essential practice' for playing humans who want to defend it in 1941 (along with trying to seize Leningrad by force across the Neva, which is a lot harder now).

I have ALL of 11th Army trying to take it, swapping in a panzer corps from 1st Panzer Group for one of the regular Corps (also changing 11th Army's leadership over the course of the first 10 turns). I also have an entire Romanian army (with 50% of its divisions comprised of German divisions, and all of its Corps HQs being German Corps (with German SUs).

The above picture is Turn 16. I started in earnest into the Crimea on about Turn 12. Rail network now is just east of Nikolaev ( now have 3 FBDs working in the southern region)
Fall 2021-Playing: Stalingrad'42 (GMT); Advanced Squad Leader,
Reading: Masters of the Air (GREAT BOOK!)
Rulebooks: ASL (always ASL), Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game
Painting: WHFB Lizardmen leaders
tex_ka95
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RE: Capturing Sevastopol in 1943

Post by tex_ka95 »

Helio, how come your map looks so much prettier than mine? What version of WiTE are you using?

Yeah, this is actually my 3rd attempt in this scenario. The AI tries like hell to hold on. in '41 I was cruising into the Crimea when all of a sudden soviet units came out of nowhere and pushed me back. Thankfully I was able to hold onto a bridgehead and my second attempt in '42 was a little too half ass'ed and also failed. This time I got everything exempt s'pol. But considering how long it took me to capture the main Moscow hex (about 8 months in '41-'42 attacking with 15 divisions plus reserves and heavy arty every turn), this may be just about impossible.
timmyab
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RE: Capturing Sevastopol in 1943

Post by timmyab »

ORIGINAL: rrbill
Must say this discussion is interesting from standpoint of siege management, but, pray tell, why is S'pol worth the trouble. Secure & seal the portals to Crimea and get on to other fronts.
I can't find any compelling reason to take the Crimea either.
The lack of naval units in the game makes Sevastopol unimportant and any attempt by the red army to break out of the Crimea before 43 is likely to lead to disaster. An attack across the Kerch strait too difficult and costly.
As you say it's better to seal the exits with Axis minors and leave 11th army to do something useful. The clock is ticking.
There should be VPs in the Crimea to represent the importance of the naval base at Sevastopol. 5 VPs would make the place well worth having.
tex_ka95
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RE: Capturing Sevastopol in 1943

Post by tex_ka95 »

I've already given up on capturing S'pol. The defending forces are so strong they are actually attacking. And I agree. With hindsight the Crimea is not worth it unless you can get it quickly by storm in '41. Good news is that I have already put forces across the Kerch strait to support a possible future push into the Caucuses.
SigUp
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RE: Capturing Sevastopol in 1943

Post by SigUp »

In my opinion the window to capture Sevastopol expires the moment the Red Army has access to Rifle Corps. Have enough of them and that place becomes as unassailable as it gets. The worth of the Crimea is debatable. In my game against loki I captured it in March 1942 using the elite Leningrad divisions that spent the blizzard back home in East Prussia (six divisions all between 88 and 95 morale, plus another few divisions that started out with 11th Army) and it was well worth it. Those six divisions wouldn't really have helped my snow offensive up north. The advantage of capturing the Crimea in our game is, with it I won't have to worry about any Soviet raids along the Black Sea coast until he has recaptured Sevastopol.
jwolf
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RE: Capturing Sevastopol in 1943

Post by jwolf »

ORIGINAL: SigUp

The advantage of capturing the Crimea in our game is, with it I won't have to worry about any Soviet raids along the Black Sea coast until he has recaptured Sevastopol.

To clarify: this is not a game feature, but your house rule with Loki, correct?
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