Lvov nightmare

[charlie0311]

My understanding of sov first turn movement restrictions is such that it costs the sov player 5mps to enter a clear enemy hex, 4 for cav. With only 1/2 mps (non-mot) and 1/3 mps (mot)this basically means only one enemy hex can be entered on sov t1.

115 minus morale (sov unit) then divide by 15 and round down, cost to enemy hex. Means cost per enemy hex is 4 plus terrain for sov unit of morale of 55 or less. Again -1 cost for cav.

So how the bleep does my opponent open my pockets which are three and four hexes wide!!!??? Trade secret I suppose.

[BJP III]

Soviet divisions still have ZOC, and will convert any new ZOC hexes that are not already in German ZOC.

[timmyab]

Some Soviet divisions can cross two hexes even on turn one so you are not completely safe even with a 6 hex wide encirclement, (although you probably are to be honest).
4 hexes is usually not strong enough on it's own, it'll need defending.

[charlie0311]

Thx guys,

I must have the formula wrong, has it been updated, and if so, where is it.

[loki100]

If I recall, the pre T1 routine randomises some of the Soviet morale so there could be some variability from game to game - so that makes a 'just about ok' pocket a bit vulnerable. I've often found 55-60 morale rifle divisions within SW Front, so they will have the capacity to push into hexes you have flipped ... and then if the surrounding hexes are not secured by your units more can convert.

[BJP III]

One other thing to keep in mind is bad routs. You can create a seemingly impenetrable converted-hex wall, but if you then rout somebody into a hex which you had considered vacant, you could be screwed if that unit rallies. DAMHIKT.

[charlie0311]

So true about routed units rallying and screwing up the pocket.

It seems that Lvov (to Romania) is more risky in .08 than 7.15, the sov units nearby have more mps than before. Many 16, inf, 40 arm/mot, 22 cav etc, don't remember .15 this way but can't confirm. The 1/2, 1/3 rule still applies, ie 40 mps becomes 13, etc. Looking at the sov layout .08 it seems the only 56 morale sov units aren't close enough but there is plenty of other stuff to easily break the Romanian salient part of the pocket (4 pz divs isn't enough to lock it tight).

Hope I'm making some sense and thx for contributing.

[morvael]

We're now investigating why some movement from ZOC to ZOC is too cheap in MP.

[charlie0311]

Have been studying and now not so sure I had a valid point, we were using alt CV, if that helps any.