Rising Sun, Falling Skys

[spence]

On Dec 8 the Japanese figured they had caught the Allies completely flat footed. Sending the B-17s to the bases in Formosa probably would have caught the Japanese bombers just getting off the ground and may not have encountered any CAP at all. In any case, the B-17s operated higher than the Japanese fighters could handle. Such a raid might have saved Cavite and the Philippine fighter force for a few weeks.

Bill

Interesting speculation but would muck this game for the Japanese Player so bad he would never recover. Be an interesting possibility only in a game that was limited to the PI/DEI/Malaya and ended after 100 turns or so like the Rising Sun Scenario in vanilla WitP. A tactical disaster/problem early on might by skillful Jappanese play be overcome in the short term.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

I started reading it yesterday, it is good but a bit too "informal" at least compared to the other titles I recently read (Kaigun, Shattered sword, any HP Willmott book)

Too opinionated with little support, too much hyperbole, with questionable, non serious descriptions like comparing the float planes following Force Z to "paparazzi"

That said, I couldn't put it down until the end of the chapter dealing with Force Z

[RogerJNeilson]

Finished it yesterday, what a shambles.....

I have a new take on all those accumulates damage points we see in the game. Reading this book I am tempted to suggest that they aren't enough... just about any action by any of the ships featured in the book results in some damage of some kind.....

And as for every gun having a 'shot life'........

Roger

[Cholmondeley Warner]

As noted above, it's a real page turner. Perhaps not the most accomplished piece of non-fiction writing, but raw and riveting. And, as a WITP fan, it's written for us! So many references to obscure places and units that, to most people would mean nothing, but to WITP fans these references will evoke moments and times in your own gameplay (well, did with me anyway!)

[DSwain]

(sorry, posted in my main profile login for some reason above - my bad)

As noted above, it's a real page turner. Perhaps not the most accomplished piece of non-fiction writing, but raw and riveting. And, as a WITP fan, it's written for us! So many references to obscure places and units that, to most people would mean nothing, but to WITP fans these references will evoke moments and times in your own gameplay (well, did with me anyway!)

[wolfclan]

I found some of the naval terminology he used unusual. Not sure if the author needed a better editor, or that he is uncomfortable using naval expressions. I especially found strange that he always described a particular Japanese cruiser as "luxurious", yet he never explained why he thought that. Overall, I thought it an excellent book, well worth the read.

[wdolson]

Which cruiser?

Bill

[warspite1]

Chokai iirc - Mikawa's flagship at Savo.

[wdolson]

I have read, though I can't find any information on it now, that a US Navy cruiser (I recall it was the Indianapolis) was outfitted for presidential use before the war with a luxury suite. I don't believe FDR ever used it though.

The Chokai may have been similarly outfitted for VIP use. Though I am just speculating.

Bill

[wolfclan]

warspite is correct: CHOKAI. I don't think I've ever heard a warship described as luxurious before this book. But I reiterate, as a criticism, this is a nitpick. I thought the book very good.

[wolfclan]

I would guess you are thinking of AUGUSTA. FDR actually used it for meetings with Churchill. It had been the Asiatic flagship. But like you, I have no specific knowledge about any luxury suite for FDR.

[Buckrock]

The four Takao class cruisers were built to serve as flagships when required. For this purpose, they were given a far larger forward superstructure than previous Japanese cruisers so as to allow for the increased command and accomodation requirements.

The standard historical references fail to make it clear whether restaurants, bars, swimming pools and deck tennis courts were included in the flagship package.

The USS Houston and USS Augusta (and IIRC the Chicago) were also built as flagships with increased accomodation and bridge facilities compared to the rest of their class.

[Buckrock]

ORIGINAL: wolfclan

I would guess you are thinking of AUGUSTA. FDR actually used it for meetings with Churchill. It had been the Asiatic flagship. But like you, I have no specific knowledge about any luxury suite for FDR.

There's several accounts out there suggesting that during the USS Augusta's 1941 refit (after returning from service with the Asiatic Fleet) that accomodation and facilities suitable for FDR's special requirements were added. This may have included a reportedly "luxurious" Presidential cabin and bathroom.

On the other hand, the USS Houston also had served at times during the 30's as FDR's "personal cruiser" but according to Hornfischer's "Ship of Ghost's", the changes to the ship were only makeshift ones done for the duration of the President's stay.

[wdolson]

At one point the Iowa had a presidential bath installed too.

Bill

[spence]

The four Takao class cruisers were built to serve as flagships when required. For this purpose, they were given a far larger forward superstructure than previous Japanese cruisers so as to allow for the increased command and accomodation requirements.

Interesting that the IJN did that for surface ships but failed to do so for the KB (even on the two new "kakus"). "Shattered Sword" mentions that the small size of Akagi's bridge and the consequent crowd was hardly conducive to decision making by Nagumo during the crucial morning of June 4th.

[Miller]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

It is only depressing if you are cheering for ABDA [;)]

ABBA would probably have done better.

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: spence

The four Takao class cruisers were built to serve as flagships when required. For this purpose, they were given a far larger forward superstructure than previous Japanese cruisers so as to allow for the increased command and accomodation requirements.

Interesting that the IJN did that for surface ships but failed to do so for the KB (even on the two new "kakus"). "Shattered Sword" mentions that the small size of Akagi's bridge and the consequent crowd was hardly conducive to decision making by Nagumo during the crucial morning of June 4th.

The Japanese were concerned about making carriers too top heavy, which influenced the design of the island. The Japanese were also fond of putting two level hangers on carriers, and they sacrificed a lot for that. The Rhyujo was dangerously top heavy because of the two hangers, it was rebuilt twice before the war in attempts to mitigate the top heaviness.

Why they didn't build a command operations center/bridge lower down from the island is beyond me.

Bill

[Buckrock]

ORIGINAL: spence
Interesting that the IJN did that for surface ships but failed to do so for the KB (even on the two new "kakus"). "Shattered Sword" mentions that the small size of Akagi's bridge and the consequent crowd was hardly conducive to decision making by Nagumo during the crucial morning of June 4th.

Lundstrom in the "First Team" books mentions Nagumo commanding from the Shokaku's flag plot during the Eastern Solomons Battle. It's clear from Lundstrom's description that this was a separate room to the navigation bridge. It would seem the Shokaku had the island space the Akagi may have lacked.