ORIGINAL: Zartacla
ORIGINAL: warspite1
a) there are too few beta testers (this is the reason a public beta was required)
This is a problem with a relatively easy solution. If Matrix was interested in fixing it, there would be a call for new beta testers or they would reach out individually for more testers. They have not done that. A public beta was not required (and the very idea of a public beta one year on should make Matrix management cringe in embarrassment), but it was easier to call it a public beta *after* taking our money than it was to actually fix the problem.
b) even if there were, there is then the problem that they hold down jobs and have lives. Getting all the 25%'s tested properly in the time available is slim
Yes, the system is broken. Someone has to take an active interest in fixing it.
c) how many of the beta testers actually know all the rules and what they are looking for? There are some - but otherwise the knowledge base is mixed - with the best will in the world stuff will get missed.
This is a problem. Beta testers should know the rules of the game they are testing. This argument is akin to the guy who went to court and tried to get his breathalyzer test thrown out because he was too drunk to give consent for a breathalyzer test.
d) there is soooo much to test. Just take one naval battle with subs, air and TRS. To properly test it the sheer number of goes would be staggering.
I accept that and agree. What prompts my angry rants aren't the bugs that pop up in rare situations. That's an unavoidable consequence of code this complicated. If Matrix put a team of twenty programmers and 100 testers on this game for five years, those kind of bugs would still pop up. My rants are triggered by the kind of bugs that come up five minutes after installing a new build - and that happens far too often.
Bottom line. I have no problem with anger coming from anyone who has paid good money for this game. The situation is as frustrating as hell. But the lazy, half-arsed, blame game - which totally misses the target - is just rubbish.
So who do you blame? It's easy as hell to blame an amorphous "system", so that nobody is responsible. But that doesn't get the job done. Matrix solution seems to be to put the onus onto their customers by creating a "public beta" so that *we* are responsible for testing. That's insulting. Someone, whether it's Steve or Matrix, has decided that finding more testers isn't necessary, nor is changing the way in which testing is conducted.
Noun 1. blame game - accusations exchanged among people who refuse to accept sole responsibility for some undesirable event
You're damn right I refuse to accept responsibility. Is that what you were implying when you said it was a lazy, half-arsed blame game?
warspite1
Quite where you got the idea that I am holding you responsible (what for I can’t image) is just baffling so I won’t even bother addressing that strange accusation…. I was reacting to your unwarranted attack on the beta testers in your OP.
Let me answer your other points one by one as per the above:
a). You have not the slightest idea about the history of the beta testers, how many were taken on, and how many never registered so much as one post before disappearing. “Easy solution”?? No it isn’t. Getting beta testers that could deal with this monster was not “easy”. Sure, plenty volunteered but very few ever contributed anything.
b). Yes, someone has to take an active interest
within the constraints of what is economically possible. and within that the beta testers are doing what they can.
c). So Beta Testers should know the rules of this monster? Right. No problems there except - Please see point 1 and your “easy” solution. Do you begin to see the problem now? Have you any idea how many discussions there are with grognards not being able to agree on a rule? How many people have admitted "There's a rule we played wrong for years?" This is a COMPLEX game. So keen and eager beta testers would turn up - see what testing involves and then took one look at the rules (if they got that far) and scarpered.
d). Agreed. I am not a programmer. Because of that I too fail to see how working on naval bugs leads to US Entry going askew. I’ve no idea how or why. It’s incredibly frustrating but I do not understand enough about it. I am sure Steve isn't doing it for s^&* and giggles....
Final point – who do I blame?
Not your fault, but this line of questioning has been done to death long before your arrival here.
I don’t blame anyone. What’s the point? It’s not like you can say “I blame X for doing Y”. “Right we shall do Z and it will all be okay”. The fact is all that can be done (given the economic restrictions in play) is being done. There are those that claimed there were hundreds of companies out there that would throw millions of £ in development funds into the project and have the game out, perfect, within months and that Matrix did not want the fame to come out. Yes - there were.....
Fact:
- Without matrix and Steve THERE IS NO World In Flames on computer. After this experience do you believe there will be a queue of companies gagging to take up the mantle if Matrix goes away? This is what we have. I hope to god it works out because if not its almost certainly goodbye.
- This is a niche game – how many board game copies do you think were ever sold? That niche status means the economics of programming and testing are restricted. It’s a shame, it’s frustrating but it is what it is.
- Was the game brought out too early and have people been sold a pup? I have my thoughts but the latter is for Matrix to answer. But as for the former, sadly I am ever more certain in the opinion that if this game was still not out, and still being beta tested by the dwindling band of dedicated individuals that it was, then it would not even be in half the shape that it is now. The progress made compared to day 1 is huge. So not great either way, but yes, better to have the game out and being worked on by a much larger audience in terms of trying to get it finished. Of course those that bought it and now see themselves as beta testers may have other ideas, but then they can always refuse to take part in the public beta.