First U.S. Entry decisions (1939)

[Grotius]

So I'm in the end-of-turn phase after turn 1, and I'm wondering about U.S. Entry options. Right now there are two chits in the Ger/It entry pool and one in the Japan pool; no chits in the tension pool. (I had 3 in the Ger/It pool, but I lost one when the Soviets occupied Poland and the Baltics.) The Players Manual says to focus on increasing tension early on, but to do that, you have to take actions that may move chits from the entry pools to the tension pools. Right now only the first two options seem available, as Germany has not yet declared war on Denmark.

I'm thinking I should take no entry action at all as the U.S., since I don't want to empty out the Japan pool or leave just one chit in the German pool. Does that make sense?

And a more philosophical question: What political considerations do the two pools represent? I get that tension represents the chance of a successful U.S. declaration of war. It models international relations between the U.S. and the Axis powers, yes? But then what does the entry pool model? Internal U.S. politics? By occupying Greenland, you "use up" some domestic political capital in Congress?

[paulderynck]

Without knowing your chit values, it sounds like you really should just do nothing and wait for them to increase.

For your Entry Options, you can't go badly wrong by emptying a pool because they can only go to Tension. The problem is you need higher and higher Entry Pool totals in order to select progressively aggressive Entry Options, so it's a bit of a balancing act. But don't confuse Entry Options with Entry Actions. See section 13.3 of the rules. The high level view is this: Options allow the US to do things that help the Allies and at the same time progress towards entering the war. Axis Actions can add chits to the US entry pools and thus make more Options available. Allied Actions can subtract chits and thus inhibit earlier US involvement in the war or even prohibit it - so the Allies need to be very careful early in the game so as not to exclude the US from being able to make DoWs.

Whether Entry or Tension, Option or Action - the whole system is meant to model the US political situation between the wars - the battle between the Isolationists and those that took the view that the US needed to be involved in world events. There's no direct correlation between the pools and the politics, you have to view the whole thing as a game mechanic. The neat thing is it works really well ! [:)]

[joshuamnave]

Getting US Tension to increase early on is harder than getting US entry to increase later. The problem is that you need to get tension up to 11 (I think, from memory) in both pools to get your first production gear up. I find that it's much easier to get my entry level high enough to gear up than to get my tension level high enough. As a result, I end up taking a bunch of US entry options that I don't really need just to push tension.

In Jan/Feb 41 the US gets 5 class 5 CV's in their production pool. Cost is 2BP's each. You really want to have both the gearing and the BP's available to build all 5 in Jan/Feb. That means building 4 ships in Nov/Dec 40. I've played more than a few games where the US was still stuck at 10 BP's in Jan/Feb '41, which means either buying all 5 CV's and trashing my gearing elsewhere, or delaying 1 or more CV's which is equally bad.

And the latest I've ever seen US entry into at least one theater was May/Jun 42, and that was a bit of an aberration. If you're not in the war by the end of '41, you start drawing an extra chit per turn. If Japan declares war on the UK, you start drawing an extra chit per turn. If Japan hasn't declared on the UK by the start of '42, then the UK probably has already garrisoned Rabaul, NEI, Singapore and maybe even Hong Kong, so a little delay in US entry isn't gonna kill you.

US entry starts slow, and mid '40 you may be thinking you're never going to get in the war... but it ramps up quickly once France falls, then war with USSR (or Spain + Gibraltar/Suez), possible wars with Greece, Yugoslavia or other balkans, aligning Finland, Hungary, Romania and/or Bulgaria, plus Chinese cities falling.. next thing you know you have all the US entry you could want but not nearly enough tension.

[Courtenay]

The key question for whether to use a chit in the German pool is "What are the Russians going to do?" If the Russians plan to claim either Bessarabia or the Finnish border lands, then you should not move a chit; otherwise the Germans will simply deny the claim, and there would be an 80% chance that the US will never be able to go to war with Germany/Italy. Oops. If Russia doesn't have plans to do either, then you can move a chit. With luck, you have already claimed Bessarabia, and the Russians might not plan to claim the Finnish border lands. In that case, if you have gotten lucky, and can pick "Resources to Western Allies", do so. (This assumes you are playing with oil; without oil, this option is much less important.)

Actions that cause chits to come out of the Japanese pool are rarer. If I could pick "Resources to China", I would do so. You want the Japanese to have to decide whether to close the Burma road early, because if Japan does, it could give you another chit in the pool, and the 1939 chits have a higher average value than the 1940 chits.

Note that "Chinese build aircraft" should, in general, not be chosen early. The Chinese don't need it early, and you have no idea if you will be short of tension or have too much, so save this pick until you know whether you need the tension.

[composer99]

Conceptually, I like to think of the US entry pool as quantifying the US' political, economic, and military readiness for war/intervention (that is, the degree to which interventionism is prevailing in Congress/wider US society/etc.) for each theatre, and the tension pool as quantifying the resulting acrimony between the US and the Axis when it takes some steps towards intervention.

Mechanically, whether or not to start passing options right away in September/October 1939 depends on what chits you have in the pool and whether more Allied entry actions (which can cause you to lose chits, as noted above) are likely forthcoming - the other Allies should keep you in the loop about their plans (such as USSR intervention in the Middle East, or a CW/French declaration of war on Italy).

vs. Japan
If you're really concerned about generating tension, you can leave the Japan pool be until you can deploy the USN to Honolulu and manipulate tension values, but the entry level for that option (26) is high enough that it might not be worthwhile. The only option you really need to crank out early is Resources to China, which can either allow lending to China or force Japan to (hopefully) close the Burma Road diplomatically for another entry roll. I like to wait to get out the first gear up before turning the screws on Japan's economy so losing the build point isn't as painful, and when you do pass the options that reduce your lending to Japan I recommend having the ability to pass the first two options on consecutive turns (and ideally pass the oil embargo the following turn).

vs. Germany
The only option you're really in a hurry to pass is Resources to Western Allies (especially if you can set up early lending to France).

vs. both
The only option requiring entry for both Axis power groups that you want to pass early-ish is usually the one that allows you to intern the Béarn, since you want to pass it before France goes Vichy. Even if the Germans are going for conquest, your CVPs are better than French ones so the Béarn, as is the transport unit if that's what you go for, so you're better off interning it.

[Grotius]

Thanks for the replies. I've got markers 2 and 4 in the Ge/It pool, and a 4 in the Japan pool. I'm inclined not to do anything this turn.

Thanks for the clarification of the distinction between entry options and entry actions.

One more newbish question: what is the range of marker values? 1 thru 10? I can't find the answer to this question in either the RAW or the RAC. Also, these are the same markers used for garrison computation, yes? (About which I have a separate question: I'm not sure I see the markers changing garrison values on the garrison screen.)

[composer99]

The lowest value marker is 0; a few of these appear when the 1940 entry markers enter the general pool (figuratively speaking, of course).

The highest value marker that I can recall is 6. Maayyyybe you can draw 6-value markers in 1941, but I'm sure you can in 1942 and 1943 (either if the US is still neutral, or for a neutrality pact).

[Grotius]

Many thanks. Glad I asked.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Thanks for the replies. I've got markers 2 and 4 in the Ge/It pool, and a 4 in the Japan pool. I'm inclined not to do anything this turn.

You have a good first draw. The average value in 1939 is around 2.3, so you're a full point over per chit.

You have entry of 11 versus Ge/It (1.5 x 6 + .5 x 4) and 9 versus Japan (.5 x 6 + 1.5 x 4). As Zartacla pointed out, it's hard to get Tension to increase early on. The nice thing about an option against Japan where the roll generates tension is that the chit that would move must be a 4. If I were you, I'd go for Resources to China, and if you miss generating tension, you can then do Chinese Build Aircraft.

If Bessarabia has not been claimed, and you think it may be, then you can't do anything on the Ge/It side yet.

[Grotius]

Bessarabia has not been claimed, and it may be, so I'm not going to do anything on the European side. Hmm, maybe I will try Paul's suggestions as to Japan. I didn't realize this was a better-than-average chit draw.

[Courtenay]

With those chit draws, I would instantly pick Resources to China.

[Grotius]

Hmm, okay, I'll give it a go.

[joshuamnave]

Case in point - Tension is often harder for me to get than entry.

[Dabrion]

As already said you should to go for tension early when considering options. There are only some options that are making a real difference: I usually try for Resources to the West early and dump US oil for the CW in Canada. Not sure if it is as good with AfA Oil. None of the other GE/IT options are crucial early on, besides maybe the escorts options if you spot a sub-heavy build.

The first breakpoint is getting ~6 points into each of the tension pools, that will secure your first gear up [1.5*6 + 0.5*6 = 12]. Take options until you get the tension right, just keep at least one chit in each of the entry pools at all times. The next one is getting it up to 17 tension each @~12 in each pool. After JP took the low hanging fruits the JP chits usually come in slow! So EoT chits usually go vs. JP until you get the tension for second gear up.

[Courtenay]

With these values, you have lots of entry, and not much tension. In this situation, your first choice is clear: Relocate fleet to Pearl Harbor. The reason that this is the next choice is that when the fleet is in Pearl, you can adjust the tension numbers for anti-Japanese options up or down by three. In your case, you will be adjusting up. You need tension in both pools; I would pick Resources to USSR here. If that does not move a chit, pick Lend Lease to USSR.

Once you get to 11 tension in both pools, pick Gear up.

To get War Appropriations, you need 34 entry and 17 tension in each pool, for a total of 51. Your current totals are 48 and 47, so you are close. However, your tension is much too low. So pick things to move tension. Once you have 17 tension in each pool, stop making picks until you get War Appropriations.

[joshuamnave]

Yah... I've just missed nearly every tension roll so far. Since that SS, I've relocated the fleet, moving a 1 marker into the pool, and chose resources to USSR, missing the tension roll (both options chosen at same time, so fleet wasn't yet in Pearl to adjust the roll). Heading into the end of Mar/Apr 41, both entry pools are upper 40's and still not enough tension for the first gear up!

[joshuamnave]

Incidentally... the tension adjustment seems to be broken on the US Entry rolls after moving the fleet to Pearl. Not sure yet about the modifier on the It's War chart, since I'm currently sitting at over 60 entry and 12 tension. And running out of entry options to take to boost it

[Courtenay]

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

Yah... I've just missed nearly every tension roll so far. Since that SS, I've relocated the fleet, moving a 1 marker into the pool, and chose resources to USSR, missing the tension roll (both options chosen at same time, so fleet wasn't yet in Pearl to adjust the roll). Heading into the end of Mar/Apr 41, both entry pools are upper 40's and still not enough tension for the first gear up!

Since lend lease to USSR is an anti-German option, the fleet at Pearl would never modify it; that modifier affects only options that are aimed exclusively at Japan. It does not work against options that affect Ge/It, nor those that affect both.

If you failed to move a tension chit for Resources to the USSR, you are allowed to pick a second anti-German option; I would have picked Lend Lease to the USSR. That would have been certain to move a chit, as well as being the best unchosen option.

Incidentally... the tension adjustment seems to be broken on the US Entry rolls after moving the fleet to Pearl. Not sure yet about the modifier on the It's War chart, since I'm currently sitting at over 60 entry and 12 tension. And running out of entry options to take to boost it

I have had this work in earlier versions of MWiF. Remembering that fleet in Pearl does not affect "Ge/It" or "Any" options, is it really not working? If not, please post a save to the Tech Support forum.

[composer99]

Lend-Lease to USSR would have to come on a turn following the Resources to USSR option, as the latter is the pre-req for the former and you can't pass an option and its pre-requisite in the same turn.

[Courtenay]

ORIGINAL: composer99

Lend-Lease to USSR would have to come on a turn following the Resources to USSR option, as the latter is the pre-req for the former and you can't pass an option and its pre-requisite in the same turn.

Ah, thank you. Yet another rule error. See signature.

OK, in that case he could have picked North Atlantic escorts. Not that useful an option, but it at least might move tension.

Of course, the way Zartacla has been rolling, it probably wouldn't. [:)]