What a day in the city of Ottawa

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MrsWargamer
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by MrsWargamer »

In so many ways, Canada doesn't have a lot of freedoms the US citizenry commonly take for granted, but that is often a police procedural thing. But then again, it is also harder for terrorists to operate in Canada paradoxically because they can't use a lot of the easily abusable rights commonly considered pillars in the US.

Yet we still enjoy a lot of 'freedoms' which are basically not available in the US.

But easily blown out of proportions moments are not unique to the US sadly, and as horrible as this day was to the soldier's family, it still isn't on par with much greater tragedies. It should be remembered though, more than just Americans died on 9/11.

I don't fret over news items when I walk down the street of my hometown though. But my nation's capital is still MY nation's capital. My family have been wanting me to move there to be with them, but I prefer real Canada, which is actually not ideally represented by our 10 largest cities. For the most part, our 10 largest cities are better thought of as interfaces with the rest of the planet. It's sadly also where all the troubles of the rest of the planet exist in Canada.

Today I will walk to the mall, and the cares of the world will not matter. Well not here in small town no where Central Ontario. But we will e talking about Ottawa and the shooting. We just won't be living in fear as a result of it. It's more likely, the people responsible should be looking over their shoulders though. Canada likes to send Peacekeepers, we even invented the idea of Peacekeeping. But, as we have shown nasty people over the years, we're not afraid to go and root them out and eliminate them either. Most Canadians prefer to keep the fighting on the ice, but, we will take the chance to go abroad for a good fight too.

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Capt. Harlock
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by Capt. Harlock »

Is no country immune to Terrorist spite? Canada was one of the last countries I would have expected to be hit by terrorists.

Not to deny the horror of having a soldier killed and the seat of government attacked, but I think the wonder is on the other side-- why it took so long. The jihadis have made clear that any nation sending troops into either Afghanistan or Iraq is a target. And Canada's generous immigration policies, like it or not, make it easier for those wishing harm to enter the country.
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ezzler
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by ezzler »

I remember 7/7 in London. Attack on 3 underground lines and a bus. All at the same time. We all pretty much had to walk home.
All 11 million commuters.

took about 6 hours. no lock downs, except in the financial district and probably the government buildings. Everyone else just went home. We were all trudging over the bridges on the Thames in out thousands.

In some ways it wasn't a very unusual feeling. We had had the IRA bombings only quite recently. Quite familiar.

Sympathies for Canada. And also congratulations. Handled the situation really well.
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by ezzler »

Oh .. and I forgot. In our London parliament, the main defender of parliament, The Sergeant at Arms, only carries a ceremonial mace to protect the elected.
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by danlongman »

The conspiratards are going nuts all over the place but it looks like this guy's
Jihadi-ness was pretty sketchy. He had a long criminal history across the country.
Hopefully this doesn't cause a stampede into stupidness like we have seen elsewhere.
The cops were pretty jumpy today.
I really don't like this thing about soldiers not wearing their uniforms...it seems like a typical Ottawa response.
I notice Geraldo Rivera is parading around the old canard about terrorist attacks
on USA! originating in Canada. I would trade a bus load of Geraldos for one Cpl. Nathan Cirillo.
"Patriotism: Your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Gilmer
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by Gilmer »

I don't know but when it happens to you and yours, it matters not if it is 1 person or 3000 people. I remember during the Boson Bombing, my cousins live there and one has run in it many times, and the other one told me he was going to go down and watch. So, when I saw it, I was trying to call my cousins, because really they are like my brothers at this point, and I could not get in touch with them.

They eventually were all right, but I was very concerned. The one that runs in it decided a couple of years ago his knees were too bad to run marathons anymore and he didn't even go. I got in touch with my other cousin, and he really is like a brother to me, we get together all the time, and he said, "I was there, but I must have left before it all happened, because I saw it on the news in a bar close by."

So, I just mean I'm sorry for the soldier and his family. And I'm glad it wasn't worse. Without all the other stuff that we focus on.
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SuluSea
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by SuluSea »

It's a sad time for Canada and our friends at NYPDs finest.

As long as we have elements (whether elected or their constituents) that continue to stick their heads in the sand on these rabid scumbags continuing to prosecute them when apprehended as criminals the western world will be plagued by this an more of the same.

I have long subscribed to the theories of William Tecumseh Sherman regarding prosecuting war. This one in particular.

“You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out."



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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by Zap »

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

My take on this is the media is having a frenzy,of course CNN has said the suspect is a Islam convert and has been "radicalized".We had another case a few days ago of another "radicalized" recent convert running over 2 cdn soldiers.My neighbour who is Muslim is sitting with me now drinking some beers watching the news,and he is pissed/worried as these idiots give his religion a bad name.Its as usual media hype.


Your neighbor will then be in favor of a crack down on those involved mosque or groups in Canada that hold extremist views. do you think he will speak out publicly against the extremist views? There is a need for a movement of Muslims that will protest publicly against all this extremism.
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bairdlander2
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by bairdlander2 »

All I know is most if not all people of that religion act the same as any other citizen here,though they keep the drinking of alcohol secret from their family and the mosque.He also agree's with me that most of the people who are "radicalized" are all mentally ill.He also claims ISIS are a great bunch of guys and all the news media reporting beheadings of people not converting is false.
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by Twotribes »

he claims filmed beheadings, photos of beheadings and the claims of the group itself are all false? And you support him? Ya bunch of great guys ISIS is after all, who knew?
Favoritism is alive and well here.
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bairdlander2
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by bairdlander2 »

I never said I support  him.He is relating the opinions/thoughts of his family members who are there in the Mid East.
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Twotribes
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by Twotribes »

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

I never said I support  him.He is relating the opinions/thoughts of his family members who are there in the Mid East.
In other words the middle east supports the ISIS terrorists because they are stupid.
Favoritism is alive and well here.
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bairdlander2
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by bairdlander2 »

Yes its common knowledge ISIS could not have made their gains without help from the locals.They have a lot of support and among the Muslim community here and in the USA as well,even though when events like these happen they declare they are opposed and ISIS is not true Islam,but its just smoke and mirrors.
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by rhondabrwn »

ORIGINAL: ezz

Oh .. and I forgot. In our London parliament, the main defender of parliament, The Sergeant at Arms, only carries a ceremonial mace to protect the elected.

The same in Canada, the Sgt at Arms, however, had a gun in a lock box which he retrieved before shooting the bad guy. I suspect the US House Sgt at Arms may have a similar arrangement.
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by danlongman »

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

I never said I support  him.He is relating the opinions/thoughts of his family members who are there in the Mid East.
In other words the middle east supports the ISIS terrorists because they are stupid.

It may come as a surprise to someone who so proudly displays his flag but the people of the Middle East
don't always agree with those of Jacksonville, NC. Nor do they accept your assessment of them as stupid.
They have their own system of values and beliefs which are at odds with ours. Many of them see ISIS as the
home team and others as unwanted foreigners.
You can howl at the moon all you like but it won't change that.
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Capt. Harlock
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by Capt. Harlock »

They have their own system of values and beliefs which are at odds with ours.

That gets into some fairly deep philosophy. Are there universal rights and morals, or is the whole field dependent on the place and time you live in? For whatever it's worth, my vote is that wife-beating, amputation for theft, slavery, and stoning are wrong, no matter the place.
Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

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bairdlander2
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by bairdlander2 »

Exactlly,my friend/neighbour says that because ISIS seems to be the "winnning" team they are supported throughout their respective area's of control.The bottom line in my opinion is if USA had not knocked Saddam out,he had control over all the factions and was a USA ally,what he did wrong to piss off Cheney and the rest of the gang is unclear,but only a fool would believe its not about pissing off some guys who own some oil interests in said countries.It still amazes me with so much evidence to the contrary that people on this forum and many other still believe in the 9/11 rhetoric that over 1 million Iraqi's citizens should perish because of 9/11.Before that happened I knew and befriended many small business owners here in Canada who were from Iraq.Last time I spoke to many of them was in 2000 or 2001.At that time period they proclaimed a love of their homeland,peace under Saddam and they were leaving Canada to return to their homeland.I often wonder if they are alive or dead now.Good people.
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by danlongman »

There would not be many in Los Angeles who disagree with you but probably more than you think.
Hanging for theft of a loaf of bread has happened in "civilised" countries not too long ago.
For wife beating and stoning and all those other good things they are laws in a lot of places
whether we agree with it or not. So is bombing people indiscriminately whether you call it
"collateral damage" or not. I don't condone any of these things but it is easy for me to preach
from just outside of Edmonton, Alberta about how the folks in Mosul should live their lives.
A few of the pigeons are coming home to roost I am afraid.
"Patriotism: Your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Zap
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by Zap »

Yes, there are universal rights and wrongs. A rationalist will disagree. So, the west, don't accept beheadings of innocents, attacking the whole world by terrorist. I see the only answer to the IS and similar is annihilation.
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bairdlander2
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RE: What a day in the city of Ottawa

Post by bairdlander2 »

Yes ,Zap but does the world agree with past atrocities like Mai Le,in Vietnam and other present day trouble nd what of present atroicities?
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