Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy(A) vs KenchiSulla (J)

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HansBolter
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by HansBolter »

IIRC Narwhal, Nautilus and Argonaut are the only three that can convert to SSTs.

Many players seem to prefer to keep them as SS for their mine laying capability.

I like to convert them. They are good for dropping raiders on small islands and transporting supply.

For supply operations I use them as leaders of a regular SS transport TF.

Regular SS can transport supplies, just not troops.

There are so many more fleet boats with bad torps and crappy commanders that I have plenty of SS for transport duty.

Typically I only commit fleet boats to offensive operation that I can place high NAV, high AGG commanders in and there are not enough of those to go around in the first six months.
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by Sangeli »

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

IIRC Narwhal, Nautilus and Argonaut are the only three that can convert to SSTs.

Many players seem to prefer to keep them as SS for their mine laying capability.

I like to convert them. They are good for dropping raiders on small islands and transporting supply.

For supply operations I use them as leaders of a regular SS transport TF.

Regular SS can transport supplies, just not troops.

There are so many more fleet boats with bad torps and crappy commanders that I have plenty of SS for transport duty.

Typically I only commit fleet boats to offensive operation that I can place high NAV, high AGG commanders in and there are not enough of those to go around in the first six months.
Ya, I think you have the right idea on how to use them. As you say they can actually transport units which regular SS cannot. And if I'm not mistaken there are probably other SS out there that also have minelaying capability.

If you remember back to the Makin raid IRL it is pretty much a perfect example of what you can do with SSTs and light infantry for lightly defended atolls in WitP. In that operation the parts of the 2nd Raider Battalion were carried by the SSTs Argonaut and Nautilus. In that battle the Raiders successfully defeated an IJN company on Makin and the 2 float planes they were tendering then reboarded the subs and left.
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Mundy
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by Mundy »

I remember when this topic was big for awhile. I was under the impression that a Makin-style raid wasn't possible with SSTs.

I'll have to look that thread up again.

[EDIT]
Found one. I guess it's possible using paras.

SST Use
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: Mundy

I remember when this topic was big for awhile. I was under the impression that a Makin-style raid wasn't possible with SSTs.

I'll have to look that thread up again.

[EDIT]
Found one. I guess it's possible using paras.

That's the strange thing about the game - Raider units that historically did the sub raids cannot load on a sub but paradrop capable units can!
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Mundy

I remember when this topic was big for awhile. I was under the impression that a Makin-style raid wasn't possible with SSTs.

I'll have to look that thread up again.

[EDIT]
Found one. I guess it's possible using paras.

That's the strange thing about the game - Raider units that historically did the sub raids cannot load on a sub but paradrop capable units can!

Yep, Raiders require Fast Transport TFs instead of SST transports.
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Mundy
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by Mundy »

Something about not being able to set up a "commando" flag for LCU. The para flag was able to suffice.

My carriers are departing Wellington next turn. One CA will be a day late and can catch up later. I'll keep the five carriers in three groups in the same hex. I'll have to skirt to the west of Lord Howe. Some returning xAKLs got hit near there from Noumea last turn, losing two. He's building up the Betties there. I'm tempted to let them try at extreme range and shred them, but I don't want to expose details yet. Maybe afterwards, if I can beat up KB.

This could be a turning point. If I come out on top, I would say his expansion to the east is at an end. Noumea can look forward to starvation. I'll be happy with a draw at this point. Wasp is about 5 weeks out, so I still have something to look forward to.

Lots if "ifs". I'm pretty confident 5 USN CVs can match KB.
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by Q-Ball »

ORIGINAL: Mundy


Lots if "ifs". I'm pretty confident 5 USN CVs can match KB.

I would not be confident; in May 1942, before you get the TBF upgrades and round out all the squadrons, and the flak upgrades, 5 USN CVs will probably lose to KB, all things being equal.

I suppose you have to roll the dice a bit, but the IJN has an advantage early. Great pilots, better planes, and more carriers; not just the 6 CVs, but by now he has RYUJO, ZUIHO, SHOHO, which are probably with KB because they can all match speeds with KAGA.

These advantages start to go away with IJN pilot attrition, USN flak upgrades, filling out TBFs and Wildcats, and flips to a qualitative advantage with late '42 AA upgrades, Hellcats, and improved Radar. But until then, pound for pound, IJN wins, IMO

Just my two yen......
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by Sangeli »

Good to know about raiders vs. paratroopers.

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: Mundy


Lots if "ifs". I'm pretty confident 5 USN CVs can match KB.

I would not be confident; in May 1942, before you get the TBF upgrades and round out all the squadrons, and the flak upgrades, 5 USN CVs will probably lose to KB, all things being equal.

I suppose you have to roll the dice a bit, but the IJN has an advantage early. Great pilots, better planes, and more carriers; not just the 6 CVs, but by now he has RYUJO, ZUIHO, SHOHO, which are probably with KB because they can all match speeds with KAGA.

These advantages start to go away with IJN pilot attrition, USN flak upgrades, filling out TBFs and Wildcats, and flips to a qualitative advantage with late '42 AA upgrades, Hellcats, and improved Radar. But until then, pound for pound, IJN wins, IMO

Just my two yen......
Look back to Jocke's game vs. MrKane if you really think the 5 USN CVs can match up against the KB plus the IJN carrier reinforcements. In that battle the full might of the IJN carriers met up against the 6 USN CVs and routed them. And that was in October 1942 by which time the USN had closed the gap more. Things may go alright if you fight a fragmented KB but if you face the full KB you're going to lose 9/10 times with 5 USN CVs in mid 42.
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Good to know about raiders vs. paratroopers.

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: Mundy


Lots if "ifs". I'm pretty confident 5 USN CVs can match KB.

I would not be confident; in May 1942, before you get the TBF upgrades and round out all the squadrons, and the flak upgrades, 5 USN CVs will probably lose to KB, all things being equal.

I suppose you have to roll the dice a bit, but the IJN has an advantage early. Great pilots, better planes, and more carriers; not just the 6 CVs, but by now he has RYUJO, ZUIHO, SHOHO, which are probably with KB because they can all match speeds with KAGA.

These advantages start to go away with IJN pilot attrition, USN flak upgrades, filling out TBFs and Wildcats, and flips to a qualitative advantage with late '42 AA upgrades, Hellcats, and improved Radar. But until then, pound for pound, IJN wins, IMO

Just my two yen......
Look back to Jocke's game vs. MrKane if you really think the 5 USN CVs can match up against the KB plus the IJN carrier reinforcements. In that battle the full might of the IJN carriers met up against the 6 USN CVs and routed them. And that was in October 1942 by which time the USN had closed the gap more. Things may go alright if you fight a fragmented KB but if you face the full KB you're going to lose 9/10 times with 5 USN CVs in mid 42.

+1

You can count on winning 6 against 3 (most times) in fall '42.
You can count on winning 4 against 2 (most times) in fall '42.
You have no hope of winning 6 against 6 or even 4 or 5 in fall '42.
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Miller
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by Miller »

I think the main problem is the Japs bring more targets to the table at this stage of the game, more CVLs, more BBs, more CA etc. Therefore the US attacks are spread out and fail to do fatal damage whereas the KB a/c have basically the US CVs to aim at with perhaps only a few CAs to distract them.
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: Miller

I think the main problem is the Japs bring more targets to the table at this stage of the game, more CVLs, more BBs, more CA etc. Therefore the US attacks are spread out and fail to do fatal damage whereas the KB a/c have basically the US CVs to aim at with perhaps only a few CAs to distract them.

The same is true in reverse if the Allies give KB lots of targets to hit, their strikes get diluted and the Allies can get through to KB on more equal terms.
In several AARs I have seen KB whupped in 1942 when it took on US carriers with an invasion nearby. The entire morning strike from KB went for the invasion, sinking a pile of (mostly unloaded) transports while the Allied Carriers scored on several of the KB carriers.
In the afternoon the KB struck at the US CVs but with a much reduced strike, and scored some hits but did not decimate, while the PM US strike smashed several of their carriers.
In some cases the US was also assisted by LB fighters from a nearby base.
It is always a risk though because weather can shut down launches or hide the enemy and you can never tell if the AI will send all your naval strikes after an enemy DD TF![:(]
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by Mundy »

I've got the CVs at sea, but I'll tread lightly right now.

He's had ships in and out of the passage off Milne, and I can't get a good reliable reading on how many CVs are there. PBYs from Townsville have the whole area saturated. He's made all of two strikes on Port Moresby with them and the numbers involved seem to indicate 3-4 decks worth of ships.

For now, I won't go further north than Brisbane. I'm kinda pigeonholed between Oz and Lord Howe, due to the Betties at Noumea. I'm not sure what kind of search activity is happening.

In my last big CV fight, I had 3 or 4 vs all of KB. What helped me was that I had a landing going on at Luganville right between the two opposing task forces, which sucked off some of his strike. He lost all of KB to only one carrier lost by me. Of course a sub sunk another with a single torpedo the next day. I wouldn't have such a distraction this time -- especially having lost my cruisers in the area.

I have the feeling all his Rabaul G4Ms went to Noumea. They had been bombing PM daily and it's stopped since he hit my transports.

I'll probably hold. I'm letting my impatience drive things, which is never good. My preference is to hit him in the middle of a Suva operation. I have no idea if Suva or New Zealand is next on the list. His prepping for Australia itself is also a question.

My Argonaut situation got solved for me. I did a global flip of all my ships to upgrade, to catch some I forgot, and didn't reset the sub. She's currently converting to an SST at Pearl. I do have paras there, so maybe I can recon the Marshalls a bit.
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by HansBolter »

Milne would be a dicey locale to engage the KB in '42 due to the inability to add LRCAP.

Its best to engage the KB under your own LBA LRCAP if possible and resist the temptation to engage when this parameter can't be met.

Suva would be a far more advantageous locale to engage.
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Mundy
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by Mundy »

I agree.

I have no planes at PM right now. The base is beat up badly, and supplies are at a minimum.

Suva can match KB in fighter strength, though I'm a bit weak in antiship there. I'm also at my limit in squadron count. Townsville could make a dent if he ventured there, but I doubt he will.

I have two B-17 squadrons left at Cloncurry, and I've set them to antiship. I'd value their recon value more than anything if they strike.

I think Noumea's due for another heavy strike from Suva. Maybe I can get lucky with the Betties. I've got 40-50 available for a raid. I've killed more fighters than lost bombers thus far.
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by Sangeli »

ORIGINAL: Mundy
I've killed more fighters than lost bombers thus far.
Unfortunately the Japanese fighter production is probably like 10-20x Allied 4E production. Success in bomber missions is not measured by how many fighters you shoot down (although of course it's a nice extra bonus). Be careful not to grind through your 4E reserves as production ramps up very slowly even through 1943.
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by Mundy »

I've been averaging about a raid a week. Noumea is due, to his moving bombers there.

I can't really keep up a high tempo, since damaged bombers take a while to fix.
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by Mundy »

14 May 1942

He's trying to reinforce his Port Moresby invasion via APDs. I've set three of them on fire. They don't hold up well to 6" guns.

I've got three subs shadowing his carriers near Port Moresby. I got one good encounter:
Sub attack near Port Moresby at 96,135

Japanese Ships
CVE Taiyo, Torpedo hits 1
CS Chiyoda
DD Yamagumo
DD Amatsukaze
DD Umikaze
DD Yudachi

Allied Ships
SS KXVII

Pity it wasn't a fleet boat.

My recon-by-B-17 paid off as far as intel goes. His task force consisted of Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu, Soryu, Shokaku, Zuikaku, Zuiho, Hosho and Taiyo. Pretty much the kitchen sink. My carriers are headed back to Wellington. I'll have to decide if I want to wait out the next invasion or pull the trigger on the Marshalls. I think I have lots of time before the next invasion happens. I have buttloads of fighters at Pearl Harbor, and I'm thinking about sending a bunch with support units to New Zealand. Currently, the Kiwis have zilch for fighters there, and their strike forces are pretty anemic. It will also buy me time for my two Atlantas to rendezvous with the fleet.

I'm regretting sending the USA 27th as far forward as I did. They're getting pounded daily, and the results have been painful. I'm trying to get them to Rangpur right now from the SW.

I'm entertaining a bombardment of Colombo pretty soon, since the CVLs seem to be out east. I can escort two old battleships with two carriers. I've upped the fighter count on the RN CVs to about 22 Wildcats on each, so unescorted Betties will suffer if they hit.
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by Mundy »

Forgot to mention...

Latest intel regarding Suva:
1942-03-14 20th Recon Regiment -is planning for an attack on Suva
1942-04-21 78th Infantry Regiment - is planning for an attack on Suva
1942-05-12 40th Inf Group Brigade - is planning for an attack on Suva
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by Mundy »

15 May 1942

Ranchi seems to be the strongpoint in India where we're facing each other. He gave it a go today...
Ground combat at Ranchi (52,32)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 65254 troops, 636 guns, 334 vehicles, Assault Value = 2032

Defending force 28814 troops, 523 guns, 409 vehicles, Assault Value = 618

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 1307

Allied adjusted defense: 689

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
5159 casualties reported
Squads: 20 destroyed, 278 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 44 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 33 disabled
Guns lost 44 (1 destroyed, 43 disabled)
Vehicles lost 23 (1 destroyed, 22 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
970 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 162 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 25 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Guns lost 76 (3 destroyed, 73 disabled)
Vehicles lost 28 (6 destroyed, 22 disabled)

Assaulting units:
4th Guards Division
7th Ind.Tank Brigade
6th Guards Division
5th/C Division
18th Division
55th Division
38th/B Division
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
48th Field AA Battalion
15th Army
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
7th Australian Division
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
84th Indian Brigade
70th British Division
26th Indian Division
85th British AT Gun Regiment
35th Light AA Regiment
23rd AA Bde
24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
22nd Light AA Regiment

Hopefully I can bleed him awhile. Supplies in the east are becoming a serious issue. I'm upping the demand at bases between here and the west coast to try and help things. Fuel from Abadan has been coming in regularly.

Likewise, I'm looking a little tighter in Australia. The main bases are in the 80k - 100k region. Melbourne's around 2,000. I have three tanker groups from Cape Town inbound, with two of them getting to Perth within the next week.

A USMC air HQ, along with some base units, plus a bunch of USAAF/USMC fighters and dive bombers are enroute to Auckland from Pearl. They'll take awhile, since I'm using xAKLs mixed in the bunch. This will probably increase NZ's air power twentyfold.
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RE: Too much Iron in my Diet - Mundy vs Cannonfodder

Post by Mundy »

16 May 1942

Another quiet-ish turn.

My bombers in India are hitting some of his troops in open ground, dealing out punishment. Another USAAF P-40 squadron is due at Aden shortly. There's a good lineup of fighters coming in there, which will help.

One of my Noumea USMC regiments is purchasable, and will show up in the states in about a month. 20 PPS well spent.

My guys at Port Moresby have been averaging 150+ casualties a turn on the Japanese with their artillery for awhile now. I'm ahead in raw APs now. KB has vanished, but I'm guessing the patrols just missed them. I've also put up an Australian little PBY squadron to assist. Supplies at PM are down to around 3,000. I figure if I'm now, he most likely is, too. I had a C-47 unit resting at Townsville and now they're flying stuff in. I'll try to get more transports there. The Aussies have been stuck with crap like Dragon Rapides and the like. 4 APDs are inbound from Pearl, but will take awhile. I wouldn't use them anyway with the air situation as it is.

This can drag on forever, for all I care. If it keeps KB occupied, that just gives me more time to get reinforcements to New Zealand. 1 Regiment of a USA division has showed up at San Francisco. Another is due in two days. I'll ship them off to Kiwi-land too. The last regiment is 90 days out. If KB departs, I'll run a big cargo TF in, braving the losses. It looks like the G4Ms have left Noumea for Rabaul again. Recon has only fighters at Rabaul, and my last raid didn't see bombers. The hit PM last turn.

When Wasp shows up in about a month, North Carolina will also show up with her. That should provide some needed muscle to my air groups.
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