Scenario 2 extras refresher needed

[Freedom205]

Ok I am old and my memory isnt what I wished it was. What are the extra land units the Japanese player gets in Scenario 2? I was thinking it was a division and a few smaller units. I also know the HI cost for pilot training is higher but I dont remember how much higher.

thanks in advance

Mike

[John 3rd]

A crapload of IJA Troops!

[Lokasenna]

More LCUs and more ships. More engine/aircraft factories as well, I think. As for the specifics...I'm not sure of the full list. The biggies are:

Guards Tank Division

Some other extra "Guards" LCUs

A full extra "class" of DDs in the production queue (don't know which class - Shimakaze, Yugumo, or Akitsuki, I think)

Extra Fuel/Oil/Resources in the bank in Honshu, I think.

Additional engine/aircraft factories, which allows for more production flexibility

More pilots in the pools, which is where the increased cost for training comes from.

[Olorin]

You get the following:
21st Army. During the spring of '42 Japan receives 5 Guards divisions and 1 armored div.
21st Air Flotilla starts with a few additional air groups that you would get later in scen1.
Shinano is now a CV.
Your supply and fuel stockpiles are increased.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Olorin

You get the following:
21st Army. During the spring of '42 Japan receives 5 Guards divisions and 1 armored div.
21st Air Flotilla starts with a few additional air groups that you would get later in scen1.
Shinano is now a CV.
Your supply and fuel stockpiles are increased.

Shinano comes on as a Taiho class CV and the Japanese get an additional three Amagi class carriers. The pool of resources at the start is much greater and the economy is humming early in the game.

The real issue is that a lot of the advantages are "front loaded" into the game. That is the Japanese have a tremendous amount of power early in the game when the Allies are at their weakest. And, the Allies get nothing extra to compensate. As the Allies you have to really be careful in the first half year of the war to prevent getting totally smashed. If you survive til 1/43 then you should be just fine. It actually makes for a fun and challenging game for the Allied player. But you are going to see scads of Japanese aircraft until the bitter end.

Some Japanese players say the the HI penalties for the excessive training pools actually hurts Japan in the long run. I will leave that to JFBs to comment on.

[wdolson]

Scenario 2 was intended from the start to be a Japanese AI scenario. It gives the extra resources so the AI can give the human Allied player a better game. It was never intended for a human Japanese player.

Bill

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Scenario 2 was intended from the start to be a Japanese AI scenario. It gives the extra resources so the AI can give the human Allied player a better game. It was never intended for a human Japanese player.

Bill

Which is why EVERY JFB looks for "victims" to play it against him. Then he adds House rules to add insult to injury. [:D]

[erstad]

Which is why EVERY JFB looks for "victims" to play it against him. Then he adds House rules to add insult to injury.

Not "EVERY" JFB [8D]

[Miller]

The best advantage for scn 2 is the extra divs and 30-ish DDs. However the late war HI tax for all the extra pilot training is crippling. You don't get any extra CVs (you get the six Unyru class in scn 1 as well) although they might arrive earlier in the game in scn 2.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Miller

The best advantage for scn 2 is the extra divs and 30-ish DDs. However the late war HI tax for all the extra pilot training is crippling. You don't get any extra CVs (you get the six Unyru class in scn 1 as well) although they might arrive earlier in the game in scn 2.

They do arrive earlier, as do many other ships. Also, the Shinano is a Taiho, which most IJ players don't build in it's original form, so it's effectively an 'extra' CV and a very good one.

Several airframe types also have earlier arrival dates, which is hugely significant when it's the N1K1 or the Ki-84.

I think there are more brigade sized infantry units added as well no one seems to have mentioned, and maybe more AS/baseforces, but I can't recall exactly.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Scenario 2 was intended from the start to be a Japanese AI scenario. It gives the extra resources so the AI can give the human Allied player a better game. It was never intended for a human Japanese player.

Bill

Now you tell me...[;)] Actually, it is quite playable vs a human as the Allies. You just have to play differently and be more patient.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Miller

The best advantage for scn 2 is the extra divs and 30-ish DDs. However the late war HI tax for all the extra pilot training is crippling. You don't get any extra CVs (you get the six Unyru class in scn 1 as well) although they might arrive earlier in the game in scn 2.

They do arrive earlier, as do many other ships. Also, the Shinano is a Taiho, which most IJ players don't build in it's original form, so it's effectively an 'extra' CV and a very good one.

Several airframe types also have earlier arrival dates, which is hugely significant when it's the N1K1 or the Ki-84.

I think there are more brigade sized infantry units added as well no one seems to have mentioned, and maybe more AS/baseforces, but I can't recall exactly.

Yeah, if I recall Viberpol has pretty much built out all his carriers by early 1944. And I was fighting scads of Georges and Franks by late 43.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Now you tell me...[;)] Actually, it is quite playable vs a human as the Allies. You just have to play differently and be more patient.

Wish all AFBs realized this, crsutton. [:)]

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Scenario 2 was intended from the start to be a Japanese AI scenario. It gives the extra resources so the AI can give the human Allied player a better game. It was never intended for a human Japanese player.

Bill

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Now you tell me...[;)] Actually, it is quite playable vs a human as the Allies. You just have to play differently and be more patient.

If you play by victory points, I would expect a good Japanese player would have an edge to run up the score for an early win. With an Allied player who is more experienced than the Japanese player, I would think it would be giving the Japanese a bit of a handicap, which may balance things out a bit.

Bill

[Numdydar]

Based on my two games as Japan, Japan can get an AV in both Scenario I and II although Scenario II is obviously easier [:)]

I played Scenario 2 as Japan in a PBEM game and still lost in '45. This is because once I cleared a path between Singapore and points North through China I stopped attacking in China even though I could have easily overrun the whole country. Also had no HRs except paying PPs to cross borders and no night bombing (but we did not decide that until mid '42).

I would never play a PBEM game as Japan using anything but Scenario 2 as it makes the game a lot more enjoyable as Japan. It helps offset the hindsight that the Allies have. It also allows newbie Japan players to have a 'cushion' for some mistakes. Especially with production.

So while #2 was designed for the AI, it does work really well in a PBEM setting too. Just a counterpoint to Bill's note above [:)]