GP and SAP bombs

[Yaab]

1) It seems that if I have CV dive-bombers set on secondary mission (i.e port attack), and in the meantime the CVs discover and attack enemy an TF, then some dive-bombers attack ships using the GP bombs or is it just a die roll based on pilot experience?


-----------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Cooktown at 95,138

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 28 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 19

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 17
SBD-3 Dauntless x 51
TBD-1 Devastator x 18

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 3 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 7 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CV Zuikaku
CA Haguro, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Ariake
CA Myoko

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
2 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
10 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 10000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 10000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

------------------------------------------------------------------

2) Also, are CV bomb sorties broken into 50% GP/50% SAP bombs or is it just universal bomb used on demand basis? If only naval attack missions are flown by CV aircraft will they draw 100% SAP bombs from a CV armory until the sorties run out?

[tigercub]

interesting!

[btd64]

Should have a CV attack in next day or so in my nasty game. Will post if anything interesting shows up....GP

[PaxMondo]

SAP - GP bomb choice is a die roll ... exact basis I don't think has ever been divulged.

[mind_messing]

Possibly it is to do with experiance.

Some IJN aircraft can carry 800kg bombs if the average experience is over 70.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Possibly it is to do with experiance.

Some IJN aircraft can carry 800kg bombs if the average experience is over 70.

But only on Port attacks, never on Naval.

[Symon]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
But only on Port attacks, never on Naval.

Cough, choke. Nice to see some forum person that knows more about the game than anyone else, and who is so willing to demand that others follow their own particular nonsense. Ciao. JWE

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Symon

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
But only on Port attacks, never on Naval.

Cough, choke. Nice to see some forum person that knows more about the game than anyone else, and who is so willing to demand that others follow their own particular nonsense. Ciao. JWE

You know what gets at me?

The fact that you could have taken the time you used to write a personal attack against someone to actually have shared some of your knowledge about the game and cleared the issue up.

Evidently we all know nothing about the game, but you're not going to tell us anything about it either...

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

SAP - GP bomb choice is a die roll ... exact basis I don't think has ever been divulged.

I should also say that it depends if an alternate has been setup in the device mapping in the scenario in question for the particular devices and then how the aircraft is setup with devices. My statement above assumes that it has been setup, but in many scenarios not all GP have an analogous SAP setup and vice versa.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Symon

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
But only on Port attacks, never on Naval.

Cough, choke. Nice to see some forum person that knows more about the game than anyone else, and who is so willing to demand that others follow their own particular nonsense. Ciao. JWE

I think you have something stuck in your keyboard. Clearly, you didn't mean to type that combination of letters.

Are you contradicting my statement? Are you saying that 800kg bombs can be used in naval attacks by torpedo planes? Because I've only seen them used by torpedo planes when on port attack, with the stipulation that the unit passes some kind of check and has high enough experience, and every post I've ever seen on here by other forum members that you hold in higher esteem has been in line with what I just posted.

You're the best, Symon.

[PaxMondo]

Loka,

The answer is yes, IJN TB's can use 800 kg for Nav Attack if they are setup for it. I haven't played a stock GC in so long that I honestly can't say if the stock scenarios can or not. In a lot of mods though, they can because the author enabled it. It isn't hard to do. MichaelM has a post somewhere laying it all out.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Loka,

The answer is yes, IJN TB's can use 800 kg for Nav Attack if they are setup for it. I haven't played a stock GC in so long that I honestly can't say if the stock scenarios can or not. In a lot of mods though, they can because the author enabled it. It isn't hard to do. MichaelM has a post somewhere laying it all out.

But in stock?

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Loka,

The answer is yes, IJN TB's can use 800 kg for Nav Attack if they are setup for it. I haven't played a stock GC in so long that I honestly can't say if the stock scenarios can or not. In a lot of mods though, they can because the author enabled it. It isn't hard to do. MichaelM has a post somewhere laying it all out.

But in stock?

Look in the editor for your scenario ... check the relevant devices for alternates and the planes for device configuration. If they are there, then they can. If not, they can't. According to Michael and others, there is hard code for torps to be replaced with 250 kg bombs which also impacts this. AFAIK, that code still exists. One of the devs would have to comment on the current beta to confirm that. Not aware that any other hard coded alternates exist.


From my turn this morning in my mod (where 800 kg is an alternate for torps on early TB models) ..

Code: Select all

 Morning Air attack on TF, near Tjepoe at 55,102
  
 Weather in hex: Light cloud
  
 Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
 Estimated time to target is 15 minutes
  
 Japanese aircraft
       B5N1 Kate x 17
  
 Japanese aircraft losses
       B5N1 Kate: 4 damaged
  
 Allied Ships
       CM Krakatau, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
       xAP Van Rees, Bomb hits 1,  on fire
       xAP Van Riebeek
       AM Abraham Crijnssen, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
       DD Thracian, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires
  
 Allied ground losses:
       50 casualties reported
          Squads: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
          Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
          Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
  
 Aircraft Attacking:
       17 x B5N1 Kate bombing from 6000 feet
                Naval Attack:  1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
  
 Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Thracian
 

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Symon

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
But only on Port attacks, never on Naval.

Cough, choke. Nice to see some forum person that knows more about the game than anyone else, and who is so willing to demand that others follow their own particular nonsense. Ciao. JWE

And then I have to admit that I have never seen a 800kg AP bomb being used on naval attacks so I would agree with Lokasenna. [&:]

I see them frequently being used by Kates, Betties, Nells or the rest of the IJN stuff in port attacks. Stock and Babes in earlier versions than the latest, dunno about any other mods.

Same goes about the op's question, in stock or the Babes versions I've played up to now, I've never seen a GP bomb being used for nav attack, only SAP. And then I usually take quite a careful look at what is happening each turn and I've seen quite some turns over the years. So has there been a change lately?

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Loka,

The answer is yes, IJN TB's can use 800 kg for Nav Attack if they are setup for it. I haven't played a stock GC in so long that I honestly can't say if the stock scenarios can or not. In a lot of mods though, they can because the author enabled it. It isn't hard to do. MichaelM has a post somewhere laying it all out.

But in stock?

Look in the editor for your scenario ... check the relevant devices for alternates and the planes for device configuration. If they are there, then they can. If not, they can't. According to Michael and others, there is hard code for torps to be replaced with 250 kg bombs which also impacts this. AFAIK, that code still exists. One of the devs would have to comment on the current beta to confirm that. Not aware that any other hard coded alternates exist.


From my turn this morning in my mod (where 800 kg is an alternate for torps on early TB models) ..

Code: Select all

 Morning Air attack on TF, near Tjepoe at 55,102
  
 Weather in hex: Light cloud
  
 Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
 Estimated time to target is 15 minutes
  
 Japanese aircraft
       B5N1 Kate x 17
  
 Japanese aircraft losses
       B5N1 Kate: 4 damaged
  
 Allied Ships
       CM Krakatau, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
       xAP Van Rees, Bomb hits 1,  on fire
       xAP Van Riebeek
       AM Abraham Crijnssen, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
       DD Thracian, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires
  
 Allied ground losses:
       50 casualties reported
          Squads: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
          Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
          Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
  
 Aircraft Attacking:
       17 x B5N1 Kate bombing from 6000 feet
                Naval Attack:  1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
  
 Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Thracian
 

Interesting. I've never seen that, and I play stock with Andy's database updates. Is it possible for the 800kg bomb to be an alternate for port attacks, but not naval attacks?

[witpqs]

In WITP (not AE), IIRC the 2,000 lb bombs for Allies (and I think the 800 Kg bombs for IJ) required a minimum average experience of 70 for the air group in question. Or maybe it was minimum experience for all the pilots??

That carried over to AE. However, AE also introduced all of the additional pilot skills. While it is possible, it is now IMO much more difficult to get a group of bomber crews up to an average 70 experience. I think this has a lot to do with how much less frequently their use is seen in AE.

[tiemanjw]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

In WITP (not AE), IIRC the 2,000 lb bombs for Allies (and I think the 800 Kg bombs for IJ) required a minimum average experience of 70 for the air group in question. Or maybe it was minimum experience for all the pilots??

That carried over to AE. However, AE also introduced all of the additional pilot skills. While it is possible, it is now IMO much more difficult to get a group of bomber crews up to an average 70 experience. I think this has a lot to do with how much less frequently their use is seen in AE.

Ok, I'm more confused now. Are you saying that it is possible for my bombers (dive bombers?) to carry a 2klb AP bomb? In order to do this, I need to meet some precondition (such as average group experience of 70)?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

ORIGINAL: witpqs

In WITP (not AE), IIRC the 2,000 lb bombs for Allies (and I think the 800 Kg bombs for IJ) required a minimum average experience of 70 for the air group in question. Or maybe it was minimum experience for all the pilots??

That carried over to AE. However, AE also introduced all of the additional pilot skills. While it is possible, it is now IMO much more difficult to get a group of bomber crews up to an average 70 experience. I think this has a lot to do with how much less frequently their use is seen in AE.

Ok, I'm more confused now. Are you saying that it is possible for my bombers (dive bombers?) to carry a 2klb AP bomb? In order to do this, I need to meet some precondition (such as average group experience of 70)?

Not dive bombers. IIRC the 2,000 lb bomb applied to Allied 4EB, and lots of checks (die rolls!) have to be passed for it to happen.

[tiemanjw]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

ORIGINAL: witpqs

In WITP (not AE), IIRC the 2,000 lb bombs for Allies (and I think the 800 Kg bombs for IJ) required a minimum average experience of 70 for the air group in question. Or maybe it was minimum experience for all the pilots??

That carried over to AE. However, AE also introduced all of the additional pilot skills. While it is possible, it is now IMO much more difficult to get a group of bomber crews up to an average 70 experience. I think this has a lot to do with how much less frequently their use is seen in AE.

Ok, I'm more confused now. Are you saying that it is possible for my bombers (dive bombers?) to carry a 2klb AP bomb? In order to do this, I need to meet some precondition (such as average group experience of 70)?

Not dive bombers. IIRC the 2,000 lb bomb applied to Allied 4EB, and lots of checks (die rolls!) have to be passed for it to happen.

Dang! I saw the 185 penetration, and had some bad thoughts for some IJN BBs.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


Look in the editor for your scenario ... check the relevant devices for alternates and the planes for device configuration. If they are there, then they can. If not, they can't. According to Michael and others, there is hard code for torps to be replaced with 250 kg bombs which also impacts this. AFAIK, that code still exists. One of the devs would have to comment on the current beta to confirm that. Not aware that any other hard coded alternates exist.

As far as I can tell from the editor poking around in Scen 1, no IJN bomber has 800kg bombs set as a weapon device (bar the D4Y4), so it seems to me that there's code at work that can't be seen in the editor..

Now, if Symon would stop insulting people and actually tell us, we can all leave this thread with more knowledge of the game than what we entered it with...