Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

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kkoovvoo
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Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by kkoovvoo »

Several turns I have ground units at base Kokoda who are in need of replacements. Several turns there is more than 2 x supply required at the base (according to 16.4. manual that is condition for ground units to take replacements). Units have replacements on. There are enough devices in the pool. Still the replacements are not taken.

I cant figure why the units take no replacement and i will appreciate explanation. Thanks.

EDIT: Now the supplies are only 400 more than 2 x base requirement. Previous turn I moved some fighters in so the supply requirement rose. Few turns ago there was supply requirement only around 1.000 and around 3.000 supplies at the base.

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kkoovvoo
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by kkoovvoo »

unit:

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PaxMondo
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by PaxMondo »

There are a lot of variables that determine replacement rate:
Amount of supply
Leader ratings
base size (Port+AF)
proximity to other bases and their size
proximity to Command HQ
other units competing for same devices
proximity to enemy

You want to maximize everything on the list except the last two, those you want to minimize. There might even be a few more variables involved, but we would need Alfred to stop in. He might even be able to rank order them. [;)]
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KenchiSulla
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by KenchiSulla »

Pax said it all.... Rebuilding is best done in rear areas, well stocked with supply and with many large supporting bases..
AKA Cannonfodder

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Yaab
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by Yaab »

My money is on other units competing for the same devices.
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1EyedJacks
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by 1EyedJacks »

Try putting them in combat mode. Rest mode helps drop fatigue/Disruption and increase morale. I think in Combat mode the unit has a stronger priority for replacements.

TTFN,

Mike
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Yaab
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by Yaab »

kkoovvoo, check if you have any units in San Francisco taking replacements. SF can give dozens of devices to units each turn. In one of my tests, San Francisco gave 56 devices to several units there in one day. I don't know how the code prioritises cases when several units want the same devices. Maybe it is unit ID or location? Maybe the units in San Fran get AA guns first and constantly empty your pools?
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by kkoovvoo »

Thx for all replies guys.

Paxmondo:
I will try to improve what i can from your list - smuggle in more supplies and replace a leader (with good admin skill). Other conditions i am unable to improve.

Cannon: You are generally right, but this is desperate fight for Port Moresby, no capacity to move unit out - no transport planes on Allied side.

Yaab: This is DBB Guadalcanal scenario, so no SF on map. As (+) next to each device indicates, there are enough of each device in the pool.

1Eyed: The unit was in combat mode previous turns, only recently i switched to rest as i hoped i might help.
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by wdolson »

Things may have changed, but if I remember right, being in rest mode gives a unit priority for replacements. But the game has changed quite a few times since I was working on it.

Bill
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Alfred
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by Alfred »

The OP keeps on asserting that the "+" sign next to the device means that there is enough of each device in the pools.  This is simply not true. The "+" sign only indicates that

(a) the device is not stockpiled in the pools, and
(b) there is at least a single device in the pools

Accordingly it is a very basic supply curve indicator and says absolutely nothing about the demand curve for the different devices.

Nor is the constant assertion that sufficient supply is present at the base necessarily correct.  The screenshot only shows an estimate of required supply based on the just completed turn actions.  It takes no account of the actual amount of supply which will be consumed in the following turn before the device replacement supply consumption routine.

Incorrect assessments always lead to incorrect answers.



The LCU device replacement routine is closely aligned with, but is also different from, the LCU device upgrade routine.  I address below only the device replacement routine.  A full understanding of the subject also needs to understand the device upgrades and overland supply movement routines which have been addressed in other threads.



Global Factors

1.  Devices which are set to stockpile in the pools will not be distributed to LCUs.

2.  LCU fragments cannot receive replacements.

3.  Only LCUs which have toggled "Replacements On" will check to see if they meet the conditions to receive replacements.

4.  There is a "replacement cycle" for each LCU which varies depending on the applicable conditions and random die rolls (see below for details).

5.  At the purchase source there must be sufficient supply to purchase the devices.  The purchase price reduces the supply amount held at the purchase source.

6.  A valid supply path from base to LCU of >49 is required for the base to be the purchase source.  If less, then the LCU itself becomes the purchase source.

7.  Device replacements are distributed from the pools in the following order
  • nationality
  • base
  • unit ID
starting with lowest number



Purchase Sources

Each turn, but subject to randomness, an LCU has a three step loop to determine which purchase sources are available.

1.  The LCU's National Base qualifies if it has (supplies >2x base supplies required) + (100 supply), and the valid supply path to the LCU is >49

2.  Friendly Base qualifies if it has (supplies >2x base supplies required) + (100 supply), and the valid supply path to the LCU is >49.

3.  The LCU itself if it's organic supplies carried = 4x supplies required, and the LCU is not located at a friendly base

Almost always the purchase source will be a base, in particular the friendly base which is accommodating the LCU, as LCUs normally retain organically only a buffer of 10 supply above their "supplies required" listed total.  Usually a LCU will only meet the third loop of above when
  • it cannot trace a valid supply path back to a land base
  • it is with an invasion fleet (with beaucoup of back up supplies) and is being landed on an enemy base (usually atoll)/non base hex
  • it is the start of a scenario

4.  Subject to meeting both the supply requirements and the valid supply path, there is no limitation as to the number of bases which can act as purchase sources.



Replacement Cycle

1.  If the purchase source is a base, the replacement cycle is 7 days BUT note discussion in point 4 below.

2.  If the purchase source is a base with 20k supply and the LCU is in "rest" mode at that base, the replacement cycle is 1 day.

3.  If the purchase source is the LCU itself, the replacement cycle is 3 days.

4.  It is important to note that all three steps in the "purchase sources" loop are checked.  This means that even though the replacement cycle is 7 days (subject randomness) if the purchase source is a base (except when the LCU is in "rest mode" at a 20k supply base), because the last check is that of the LCU itself as the purchase source, the replacement cycle is reset to 3 days.  Back in February 2011 michaelm speculated that the 7 day cycle specified in the code was originally in order to be consistent with the replacement cycle of air units but that at some point in time it was determined it was more appropriate to have a shorter replacement cycle for LCUs.




In practical terms, the LCU device replacement cycle is 3 days, or 1 day if the LCU is in "rest mode".  However, this does not mean that replacement devices will be distributed so regularly due to randomness and the global factors listed above.  To quote michaelm from 11 May 2014:
[center]"The available supply at a base (in supply range) is the only requirement to take replacement devices at a base."[/center] 
The rate at which this occurs is modified by certain factors but ultimately you get or do not get replacement devices based on supply availability.

As is usually the case, the above is put together from various dev posts.  The following thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2713481&mpage=1&key=replacements&#2714439

is the best single dev source on the subject.

Alfred

Edit: Further clarified the replacement cycle for condition 2.
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by kkoovvoo »

Hi Alfred,

Thx for reply. Your post was very helpful (i tried to google „ground unit replacement“ and not „LCU replacement“ – thats why i failed to find that useful link).

I simplified meaning of „+“, but there is plenty of everything in pool (28 x 90mm AA gun, 37 x 40 mm Bofors AA gun, 318 x 0,5inch AA MG, 110 x radar....).

So the problem must be insufficient supplies. I will try to get more supplies in and to decrease supply requirements by moving some air groups out.
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

I've never really understood replacements away from a base. Thanks, Alfred.
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by Alfred »

ORIGINAL: kkoovvoo

Hi Alfred,

Thx for reply. Your post was very helpful (i tried to google „ground unit replacement“ and not „LCU replacement“ – thats why i failed to find that useful link).

I simplified meaning of „+“, but there is plenty of everything in pool (28 x 90mm AA gun, 37 x 40 mm Bofors AA gun, 318 x 0,5inch AA MG, 110 x radar....).

So the problem must be insufficient supplies. I will try to get more supplies in and to decrease supply requirements by moving some air groups out.

Searching the forum is more of an art than a science. When it takes me several hours to research a topic it is usually because I have to try out several different keywords. That plus reading all the associated posts just to eliminate the non relevant ones, then drafting the reply etc.

Both witpqs and wdolson are big supporters of using the Google search engine to search the forum. I personally prefer to use the forum's search engine which although less powerful than Google, does allow for less precision in its query. In this instance the only keyword used was "replacements".

You should reread my post because I have edited it to clarify an important condition which may have been missed. You are going to need to ship in a huge amount of supply into Port Moresby.

Alfred
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1EyedJacks
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by 1EyedJacks »

I'm wondering if the reason you don't see reinforcements is because you are playing a short scenario and not a campaign... Does the DBB Guadalcanal scenario generate replacements?

TTFN,

Mike
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by kkoovvoo »

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

I'm wondering if the reason you don't see reinforcements is because you are playing a short scenario and not a campaign... Does the DBB Guadalcanal scenario generate replacements?


Yes it does, see my post #11
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by rustysi »

Holy crap Alfred this is by far the most concise post I've seen on this topic. Thank you so much.[&o][&o][&o]
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Yaab
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by Yaab »

Thread resurrection.

Alfred, thanks for pointing me to this thread. One question, where can we check nation ID you talk about in "Global Factors", point 7?

EDIT: Strange, but the OP never told us if the AA unit in Moresby finally took those replacements.
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by Alfred »

It says unit ID, not nationality ID.
 
Alfred
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by inqistor »

Don't believe in what you see in pools screen. The fact that Device have the same name, doesn't mean that this is the same Device used in LCU.

For example, Japan have FOUR different Sound Detector Devices, each of them upgrading to different Radar Type.

Probably the only sure way to know if you actually have right Device for replacement is in editor.
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RE: Ground unit replacements - no ALF1

Post by Yaab »

ORIGINAL: Alfred

It says unit ID, not nationality ID.

Alfred

I meant, do nationalites have their internal order i.e. USA first, USMC second, Chinese third etc. If all nations at start compete for engineer devices, and you enable replacements for hundreds of LCUs from all Allied nations across the map, can one nation i.e. USA empty the pool before LCUs from the last nation (i.e Dutch) get a chance to snatch eng devices?
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