My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

The newest game by Ageod, set during The Great War.

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Queeg
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by Queeg »

ORIGINAL: Ace1

Graphics are beautiful.
That is one of the best aspects of the game, but I guess beauty is in the eyes of the beholder...

Definitely subjective, but I also like the graphics. Great artwork and nice period feel.
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geozero
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by geozero »

ORIGINAL: Ace1

Graphics are beautiful.
That is one of the best aspects of the game, but I guess beauty is in the eyes of the beholder...

Can't argue there... but I stopped playing Candyland a long time ago... [:D] The graphics in HOI and Victoria are way better in every aspect.
JUST SAY NO... To Hideous Graphics.
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geozero
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by geozero »

There is Making History - The Great War which looks promising... just enough detail and complexity yet easy enough to play. Worth checking out.
JUST SAY NO... To Hideous Graphics.
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Queeg
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by Queeg »

ORIGINAL: geozero

There is Making History - The Great War which looks promising... just enough detail and complexity yet easy enough to play. Worth checking out.

Don't like the graphics. [;)]

Actually, I own it but am waiting for it to get out of Early Access before spending much time with it. I've seen enough to know I'll probably like it, but would rather wait until all the whole game is there before I invest much time into it.
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mrfeizhu
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by mrfeizhu »

I must be missing some thing, i think the graphics in TEAW is very nice, The map is what maps looked like than. Every one has their own ideas of whats good or bad.
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geozero
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by geozero »

ORIGINAL: mrfeizhu

I must be missing some thing, i think the graphics in TEAW is very nice, The map is what maps looked like than. Every one has their own ideas of whats good or bad.

Sorry to disagree but that is NOT how maps looked like back then. I studied mapmaking at the Defense Mapping School and am the resident geek for all things map. But don't take my word for it.

Here's what a period map should look like - if you really want to go for period correct looks:

https://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histori ... e_1911.jpg

Notice the colors are subdued, not cartoonish.


JUST SAY NO... To Hideous Graphics.
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Queeg
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by Queeg »

ORIGINAL: geozero

Sorry to disagree but that is NOT how maps looked like back then. I studied mapmaking at the Defense Mapping School and am the resident geek for all things map. But don't take my word for it.

Here's what a period map should look like - if you really want to go for period correct looks:

https://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histori ... e_1911.jpg

Notice the colors are subdued, not cartoonish.

I suspect folks back then liked colors as much as we do today. We probably should be careful about concluding otherwise based on looking today at 100-year-old vintage maps. Sorta like watching old movies and concluding the world used to be black and white.

There's this, for example:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... Europe.jpg

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Gilmer
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by Gilmer »

I hate maps with washed out colors. Makes me think I'm looking at 1970s TV.
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mrfeizhu
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by mrfeizhu »

If people don't like the game, don't play it don't buy. geozero the map you show as an example is a different scale and has a different use. If you were so unhappy with the game why did you buy it don't you look at screen shots of the game before you buy it?
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Gizuria
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by Gizuria »

ORIGINAL: mrfeizhu

If people don't like the game, don't play it don't buy. geozero the map you show as an example is a different scale and has a different use. If you were so unhappy with the game why did you buy it don't you look at screen shots of the game before you buy it?

Nowadays, it's not enough for some folks to complain. They feel it's necessary to dissuade others from buying as well. One post is more than enough to make your case.
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Gizuria
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by Gizuria »

ORIGINAL: Queeg

ORIGINAL: Ace1

Graphics are beautiful.
That is one of the best aspects of the game, but I guess beauty is in the eyes of the beholder...

Definitely subjective, but I also like the graphics. Great artwork and nice period feel.

Shame though that you feel:

"...TEAW at present feels too much like a game system in search of a war."

You posted that in response to someone's query as to whether he should buy this game. Way to win over the customers [;)]
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Queeg
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by Queeg »

ORIGINAL: Fascist Dog


Shame though that you feel:

"...TEAW at present feels too much like a game system in search of a war."

You posted that in response to someone's query as to whether he should buy this game. Way to win over the customers [;)]

It's not my job to "win over the customers." Perhaps you feel a need to act as an unpaid PR agent for AGEOD, but I don't.

The things that are good - the artwork, the battle mechanics, the period feel - I'll tout.

But the things that are bad - the AI, the weak command and control system, and handling of the EE on the strategy-game side - I'll criticize.

AGEOD are big boys. They don't need training wheels. And we do neither them, nor their potential customers, any favors by blowing smoke about their games. They have many other great games. Suggesting this game, at present, is representative of their other work is no compliment.
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Gizuria
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by Gizuria »

Of course it's not your job and nobody expects you to either. But do you really need to be quite so negative when you're answering their questions? You don't think AGEOD are unable to fix the AI in the game, do you? Assuming that your answer to that question is 'No", wouldn't it suffice to warn folks that the AI isn't up to AGEOD's usual standards but it's a fresh release and they're working hard to fix it. Caveat Emptor? That way, you give them an honest answer to their question and it's up to them. You don't have to be a company toadie.

Battle mechanics? You made a number of very lengthy posts explaining why you thought WW1 CE's combat mechanics were superior, IYO, in a similar thread about comparing TEAW of that title. Glad to see you've changed your mind.

Period feel? Haven't you made several posts already to the effect that the game doesn't feel like WW1 but more like 'CW with pointy hats'? Just from this thread alone:
Agreed. TEAW has wonderful artwork and loads of detailed units, but it doesn't really capture the feeling of WWI, at least at present.

WWI Gold does a much better job of modeling WWI - better diplomacy, better recreation of trench warfare, better simulation of combat across a front rather than just stacks, better simulation of the development of new combat doctrines and execution in ground offenses (via the Grand Offensive mechanism).

< Message edited by Queeg -- 9/23/2014 12:38:20 PM >
#50

I can tell you the current AI is a mess and the game presently feels nothing - not even a little - like WWI.
#53

I've never seen anything resembling a Battle of the Frontiers, but I've seen plenty of Sedans. This game plays like the Franco-Prussian War far more than WWI.
#56

Yes, the human is better than the AI in CW2, but the game engine there at least feels like the CW and AI acts in a manner that is plausible and consistent with that setting.

Here, at present, neither the game engine nor the AI resemble WWI.

Not related to the period feel but the regular, monotonous drumbeat of your gloomy negativity is evident here. [:D]
#58

I fear this game is quickly headed for the MP-only heap - which is a shame considering AGEOD's other games

Seriously, do you think you could wait until the patch is released before making more of these needlessly disparaging remarks?
Ace1_slith
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by Ace1_slith »

When you think of it, two biggest complaints have been bad AI and long turns. It is difficult to balance those two since taking care of one makes the other one worse. Imagine Kasparov complaining that Deep Blue takes too much time to calculate its move. It would be apsurd. The developers have been working on scripts to forbid the AI from doing some stupid things, but as long as the AI has it's time limit, there is bound to be problems. Compared to CW2, this game has much more regions to operate in. That is why it is so good in MP. But all those extra regions are draining AI resources, since human can judge which areas are important and which are not. AI can't do that.
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wodin
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by wodin »

If the AI is decent long turn times don't bother me to much..I mean I beta test Tigers Unleashed for christ sake:)
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Gizuria
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by Gizuria »

ORIGINAL: wodin

If the AI is decent long turn times don't bother me to much..I mean I beta test Tigers Unleashed for christ sake:)

Is that some sort of circus management sim game?[:D]
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Queeg
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by Queeg »

ORIGINAL: Fascist Dog

You don't think AGEOD are unable to fix the AI in the game, do you? Assuming that your answer to that question is 'No", wouldn't it suffice to warn folks that the AI isn't up to AGEOD's usual standards but it's a fresh release and they're working hard to fix it. Caveat Emptor? That way, you give them an honest answer to their question and it's up to them.

I don't know if they will be able to bring the AI in this game up to par with their other games for the reasons Ace mentions in his post above, plus a few others. This is a much bigger game than this engine has modeled in the past. And the fundamental style of warfare - broad-front multi-army offensives as opposed to single army battles - is very different from AGEOD's 19th Century games. Finally, the lack of a comprehensive command and control system leaves the AI with no way to organize its units except to lump them into giant, penalized stacks.

The AI, at present, is far too passive, doesn't seem to understand strategic objectives, cannot create the supply lines necessary to sustain offensives, and generally can't control its units except by ignoring the stacking penalties. The challenges here are far greater than in AGEOD's other games. I hope they are able to whip the AI into shape - I only play SP, so I definitely want a good AI - but I have honest doubts about whether they will get there with this title.

It isn't a matter of effort - I know they will try very hard - but it may not be doable.

That's an honest answer.
Haplo_Patryn
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by Haplo_Patryn »

West Front, 1915 february.

Image

WWI, real WWI. Playing this game (or WitE, WitP/AE, BA, AT) against the IA is wasting time. IA will never play better than a human opponent, not even close to what a bad human player will. Why don't you try PBEM game guys? It's so easy, not problem at all.

Come on, if you want to play against IA it's ok but don't come here and tell us that this game is crap, bad or that is the last game you will buy from AGEOD because the IA is not good. Come on, Rome Total War 2 IA is a joke but is a bestseller or fans play it because like multiplayer, not for playing against the IA. It's ok to say what you think is the truth, but is not fair and at least AGEOD IA is far better than other IAs top sellers wargames. Do you really think that WitP/AE is a bad game because the IA is crap? Or WitE?
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Queeg
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by Queeg »

ORIGINAL: Haplo_Patryn

West Front, 1915 february.

WWI, real WWI. Playing this game (or WitE, WitP/AE, BA, AT) against the IA is wasting time. IA will never play better than a human opponent, not even close to what a bad human player will. Why don't you try PBEM game guys? It's so easy, not problem at all.

Come on, if you want to play against IA it's ok but don't come here and tell us that this game is crap, bad or that is the last game i will buy from AGEOD. It's ok, but not fair. Do you really think that WitP/AE is a bad game because the IA is crap? Or WitE?

PBEM isn't an option for everyone. Some of us have schedules that make MP impractical.

No one expects an AI as good as a human player. An AI comparable to AGEOD's other games would be fine. Here's hoping.
vonRocko
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RE: My Last AGEOD Game. Period.

Post by vonRocko »

Ah the old excuse for a lame AI: "Play pbem"! The facts are the vast majority of people do not play that way. A semi competent AI is possible these days, if the developer isn't lazy.
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