Attack Bombers

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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Chris21wen
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Attack Bombers

Post by Chris21wen »

Do ABs behave the same as other level bombers or is it all down to height?
JocMeister
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by JocMeister »

They will drop down and strafe after dropping their bombs if they are on naval attack.
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Chris21wen
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by Chris21wen »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

They will drop down and strafe after dropping their bombs if they are on naval attack.

Thanks. What about ground attacks?
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crsutton
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by crsutton »

Attack bombers will drop down and attack at 100 feet for any attack set below 6,000 feet. The will suppress AA at bases and on ships (but can still potentially take a beating) Above 6,000 feet they work just like any other bomber. Non attack bombers only carry half a bomb load when set to low level attack. Fighters set to 1,000 feet will drop down to 100 feet as well.
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wegman58
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by wegman58 »

New to the game and just made it to May 1942. Are Attack Bombers clearly identified and do I have any yet? (Allied)
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crsutton
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: wegman58

New to the game and just made it to May 1942. Are Attack Bombers clearly identified and do I have any yet? (Allied)


Hey welcome, You won't see any until later. The first versions are the D, G and J versions of the B25 and then later the A20G. They start to show up in 1943. They are labeled attack bombers in the plane description menu but you can also tell because the nose art shows them as not having a bombardier's glass on the front of the aircraft.
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geofflambert
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by geofflambert »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Attack bombers will drop down and attack at 100 feet for any attack set below 6,000 feet. The will suppress AA at bases and on ships (but can still potentially take a beating) Above 6,000 feet they work just like any other bomber. Non attack bombers only carry half a bomb load when set to low level attack. Fighters set to 1,000 feet will drop down to 100 feet as well.

Do you mean by low level below 6k or at or below 1k? If it's below 6k I did not know that. Ouch.

oaltinyay
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by oaltinyay »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Attack bombers will drop down and attack at 100 feet for any attack set below 6,000 feet. The will suppress AA at bases and on ships (but can still potentially take a beating) Above 6,000 feet they work just like any other bomber. Non attack bombers only carry half a bomb load when set to low level attack. Fighters set to 1,000 feet will drop down to 100 feet as well.

I had several missions where I sent b24s etc carrying a full bomb load at 100 ft... realistic ? no I dont think so, but it did happen.
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crsutton
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: oaltinyay

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Attack bombers will drop down and attack at 100 feet for any attack set below 6,000 feet. The will suppress AA at bases and on ships (but can still potentially take a beating) Above 6,000 feet they work just like any other bomber. Non attack bombers only carry half a bomb load when set to low level attack. Fighters set to 1,000 feet will drop down to 100 feet as well.

I had several missions where I sent b24s etc carrying a full bomb load at 100 ft... realistic ? no I dont think so, but it did happen.

Not a full bomb load but half a bomb load. Still very deadly and usually frowned upon in PBEmail play.
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crsutton
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Attack bombers will drop down and attack at 100 feet for any attack set below 6,000 feet. The will suppress AA at bases and on ships (but can still potentially take a beating) Above 6,000 feet they work just like any other bomber. Non attack bombers only carry half a bomb load when set to low level attack. Fighters set to 1,000 feet will drop down to 100 feet as well.

Do you mean by low level below 6k or at or below 1k? If it's below 6k I did not know that. Ouch.

Anywhere below 6k for Attack bombers. 1k for fighters.
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HansBolter
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: wegman58

New to the game and just made it to May 1942. Are Attack Bombers clearly identified and do I have any yet? (Allied)


Hey welcome, You won't see any until later. The first versions are the D, G and J versions of the B25 and then later the A20G. They start to show up in 1943. They are labeled attack bombers in the plane description menu but you can also tell because the nose art shows them as not having a bombardier's glass on the front of the aircraft.

cr, aren't the A20s attack bombers? The Americans get two squadrons of them at start.
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geofflambert
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by geofflambert »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Attack bombers will drop down and attack at 100 feet for any attack set below 6,000 feet. The will suppress AA at bases and on ships (but can still potentially take a beating) Above 6,000 feet they work just like any other bomber. Non attack bombers only carry half a bomb load when set to low level attack. Fighters set to 1,000 feet will drop down to 100 feet as well.

Do you mean by low level below 6k or at or below 1k? If it's below 6k I did not know that. Ouch.

Anywhere below 6k for Attack bombers. 1k for fighters.

I'm sorry, I meant for regular bombers. Are they half-load at 5k?

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crsutton
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: wegman58

New to the game and just made it to May 1942. Are Attack Bombers clearly identified and do I have any yet? (Allied)


Hey welcome, You won't see any until later. The first versions are the D, G and J versions of the B25 and then later the A20G. They start to show up in 1943. They are labeled attack bombers in the plane description menu but you can also tell because the nose art shows them as not having a bombardier's glass on the front of the aircraft.

cr, aren't the A20s attack bombers? The Americans get two squadrons of them at start.

I think early A20s carried bombardiers but will have to check in game. The may be attack bombers. You get so few that I rarely use them for anything but training.
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crsutton
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: geofflambert




Do you mean by low level below 6k or at or below 1k? If it's below 6k I did not know that. Ouch.

Anywhere below 6k for Attack bombers. 1k for fighters.

I'm sorry, I meant for regular bombers. Are they half-load at 5k?

Yes, all bombers but attack bombers are half load when at low level. 5k is low level.
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geofflambert
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by geofflambert »

OMG, I've always used 5k (except 4Es) unless the flak was too hot. From now on I'll win every game as the Japanese! [8D]

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geofflambert
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by geofflambert »

Obviously this rule doesn't apply to torpedo bombers. I haven't had any problem approaching at 5k there.

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HansBolter
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Obviously this rule doesn't apply to torpedo bombers. I haven't had any problem approaching at 5k there.

Torp bombers will fly in at any altitude and drop to 200 ft to release. No penalty for low level.
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alimentary
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by alimentary »

ORIGINAL: crsutton
I think early A20s carried bombardiers but will have to check in game. The may be attack bombers. You get so few that I rarely use them for anything but training.
The A20's at game start (scen 1) are not attack bombers. The in-game "aircraft reinforcement pool" shows that the first attack bomber production starts with the A20A1 Havoc in September 42 and the B25D1 Mitchell in February 43. The first reinforcement group ("Group Reinforcement Schedule) arriving pre-equipped with attack bombers is the 41st BG/820th BS arriving 22 Sep 43. You can upgrade existing groups to become attack bombers earlier than that, of course.


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crsutton
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

OMG, I've always used 5k (except 4Es) unless the flak was too hot. From now on I'll win every game as the Japanese! [8D]

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The thing is that it rarely pays to use Allied medium bombers on low ground attack or airfield attack. They are nearly as effective at 7-9000 feet and much less likely to get hit by flak. At low altitude, a well defended base will just chew your bombers up. This includes attack bombers. I use them at low altitude versus units in the open that I know don't have strong AA defense and against light warships and merchants. Heavy warships will chew them to bits even when they are suppressing flak.

It is a case by case thing. I still use non -attack bombers on naval attack at 1,000 feet. Sometimes it is better to place a bomb regardless of the losses. And in 1942 you often have little choice. The new flak formula in DaBabes just makes it worse to use low level attacks.
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wdolson
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RE: Attack Bombers

Post by wdolson »

Attack bombers represent the bombers modified by Pappy Gunn's people in Australia to make them better at attacking transports and escorts. They did experiments with B-17s and found they could serve well in the low level attack role, but the supply was very small and there was a big demand for them to fly other missions. The B-25 and A-20 were picked for conversion. The B-26 was a very marginal airplane flying from unimproved airstrips cut out of the jungle, which is why they were diverted to Europe. B-25s and A-20s did much better in rough conditions.

The B-25 was the better plane for this role because it had a bigger cross section and longer range than the A-20, but they converted both. They loaded them up with as many .50 caliber machine guns they could fit. The B-25 usually had 2 per side just behind the cockpit and the early versions had 4 more in the bombardier's compartment. Many B-25s were also field modified with a tail gun position and waist guns. By late production of the B-25D and Gs, the waist guns were factory standard. The tail gun position became standard with the B-25H when the top turret was moved forward.

The modified A-20s and B-25s were devastating in the low altitude skip bombing role. The suite of .50s was enough to sink small craft and kept flak gunners cowering on larger ships. The attack came in fast at mast height and was usually so quick the defending ship had no opportunity to maneuver. The most famous use of these bombers was the Battle of the Bismark Sea.

Douglas and North American started factory producing these types of bombers after a while. The extra guns were often removed in other theaters, but usually kept in the Pacific. The 8 .50 forward package was in common use in all B-25 units against Japan by late war, even if they had someone riding in the nose. The B-25 had a modular nose that could be changed out replacing the bombardier with a solid nose with an extra 4 .50 calibers.

The B-25G and H was the first attempt to make a more effective, factory built attack bomber, but the 75mm gun had different ballistics than the .50 calibers and aiming the gun was very difficult. In some cases the 75mm was removed in the field and 1-2 .50s was put in its place.

Late A-20s came with a bombardier version and a solid gun nose version. Typically a unit in Europe would have a couple of bombardier versions for flight leaders and the rest with gun noses. When the A-26 began to replace the A-20, there was a shortage of glass nosed A-26s, so the glass nosed A-20s continued to fly with gunned up A-26s.

In the original WitP there were poor rules for skip bombers that could lead to gamey use. For AE, the category of the attack bomber was created to represent these modified bombers.

Bill
WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer
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