Aircraft factory conversion delay question
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Aircraft factory conversion delay question
Is there a way to calculate roughly in days how long a aircraft factory conversion delay will take in days to produce the new plane?
The manual says subtract the old planes durability from the new planes durability to get delay quantity, zero 22 minus nate 24 equals -2.
So there shouldn't be much of a delay in producing new zeros which are already in production in Japan,
it's been two months in Korea since I converted the factory and no production has started?
The factory has all items needed for production in excess but no aircraft production yet?
Is there a way to calculate roughly in days how long it will take to convert a factory in order to determine whether it's worth the delay or
whether it's better to invest in research in the next generation aircraft in order to produce aircraft needed?
The manual says subtract the old planes durability from the new planes durability to get delay quantity, zero 22 minus nate 24 equals -2.
So there shouldn't be much of a delay in producing new zeros which are already in production in Japan,
it's been two months in Korea since I converted the factory and no production has started?
The factory has all items needed for production in excess but no aircraft production yet?
Is there a way to calculate roughly in days how long it will take to convert a factory in order to determine whether it's worth the delay or
whether it's better to invest in research in the next generation aircraft in order to produce aircraft needed?
RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
Read this thread and the hyperlinked thread too.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3022096&mpage=1&key=aircraft%2Cfactory
Alfred
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3022096&mpage=1&key=aircraft%2Cfactory
Alfred
RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
I appreciate you trying to help but the commentary you pointed me to is only about R&D. My issue is converting a factory to zeros that are already in production at another factory thus doubling the output. The factory is at size 56 all of which are damaged, the durability factor is a -2 but after two months no factory's have been repaired thus no planes are being produced at that factory even though the original factory in Japan is producing zeros. With a durability difference -2 I would expect a week or two of delay before at least one factory started producing but after two months all of them are still in disabled status so I don't understand what the problem is and would like to see if someone knows what I haven't done or if it's a bug in the game?
- geofflambert
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RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
ORIGINAL: colt6900
I appreciate you trying to help but the commentary you pointed me to is only about R&D. My issue is converting a factory to zeros that are already in production at another factory thus doubling the output. The factory is at size 56 all of which are damaged, the durability factor is a -2 but after two months no factory's have been repaired thus no planes are being produced at that factory even though the original factory in Japan is producing zeros. With a durability difference -2 I would expect a week or two of delay before at least one factory started producing but after two months all of them are still in disabled status so I don't understand what the problem is and would like to see if someone knows what I haven't done or if it's a bug in the game?
When you start to order the change, it tells you what the costs are in terms of days. If you meet those terms (supply and manpower) it will take the number of days equal to the required repair. for instance, if you change a Jack factory to a Zero, you'll get some credit for it being a single engine fighter factory to begin with. If you change a two engine aircraft factory (let's say Helens) it will take you more repair points and thus more days to accomplish it. So, if your factory was producing Jacks at the rate of 30 per month, you may be credited something like 17 points and only need 13 more to finish it to a 30 AC producing Zeros. If I got any of this wrong someone will jump all over me.
If you don't maintain a sufficient level of supply at that city, you will fail to repair on that day. I'm not sure what the required amount is but I think it may be double what the base requires. Just remember 1 repair point per day. This cannot be accelerated to my knowledge.
- Chickenboy
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RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
colt6900,
A screenshot of the industry screen with the disabled factory highlighted would help.
There is insufficient information from your post to diagnose the problem. It's unlikely to be a bug with the game. Most likely: do you have sufficient supply in the hex? You need "at least 10,000", but practically speaking 14-15k is a better target for supply in a hex with repairing industry/HI/research/production.
A screenshot of the industry screen with the disabled factory highlighted would help.
There is insufficient information from your post to diagnose the problem. It's unlikely to be a bug with the game. Most likely: do you have sufficient supply in the hex? You need "at least 10,000", but practically speaking 14-15k is a better target for supply in a hex with repairing industry/HI/research/production.
- geofflambert
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RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
There you go, I knew that but I forgot. My memory sometimes isn't too good lately. 10,000 points plus. Build in a good buffer amount especially at the small bases (like Sendei) as they are low on the totem pole to recieve supply. So up the required supply at that base to 20k perhaps.
RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
ORIGINAL: colt6900
it's been two months in Korea since I converted the factory and no production has started?
The factory has all items needed for production in excess but no aircraft production yet?
As Chickenboy states, there is probably a lack of supply. A screenie will help. I usually toggle the base required supply to at least 4k for any base with airframe factories I'll be upgrading or using for R n D. The base will then try to keep 3x that amount in it's stores. Every factory repaired costs 1k supply, so having a bit extra is good in case the base does not draw supply every day and especially if you're repairing more than one factory or industry point.
Is there a way to calculate roughly in days how long it will take to convert a factory in order to determine whether it's worth the delay or
whether it's better to invest in research in the next generation aircraft in order to produce aircraft needed?
I'm always ready to go with a factory when I change it over, so it's usually exactly the number of factory points. So 30 days for a size 30 factory.
Research is another question entirely. It is very good to research certain airframes as a Japanese player, but you have to be careful which ones and how much you allocate to your research. It can be costly and supply is not endless as on the Allied side. It all must be paid for in the fuel and resources it takes to create it.
For research the thread Alfred linked is a good one to read. You might also read the beginnings of some Japanese AARs as most players will outline their research and have lengthy discussions about it. Mike Solli's AAR is a great place to look for anything to do with setting up the Japanese side.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
- geofflambert
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RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
I'm not sure about this, but I think the factory will begin producing planes before you reach the maximum you requested, so if your factory is repaired to 17, it will produce a little more than one plane every two days.
RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
Thanks for all the help I know what to try now I think. There's no R&D factor since the zeros are already in production, the supply points must be the issue I only maintained three times the base requirement, if what some of your saying I need to be at 10 times to 15 times the base requirement. Unless you mean the factory number in which case it's 1000 per factory point times 56 then I would need 56,000+ in order to meet the need, if I understand what we've been talking about.
At present all I can do is set the max boost of base points to about 27,000 and give it a few days to build up then start counting to see how long it takes to produce some zeros.
And again thanks for all the help.
At present all I can do is set the max boost of base points to about 27,000 and give it a few days to build up then start counting to see how long it takes to produce some zeros.
And again thanks for all the help.
RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
ORIGINAL: colt6900
Thanks for all the help I know what to try now I think. There's no R&D factor since the zeros are already in production, the supply points must be the issue I only maintained three times the base requirement, if what some of your saying I need to be at 10 times to 15 times the base requirement. Unless you mean the factory number in which case it's 1000 per factory point times 56 then I would need 56,000+ in order to meet the need, if I understand what we've been talking about.
At present all I can do is set the max boost of base points to about 27,000 and give it a few days to build up then start counting to see how long it takes to produce some zeros.
And again thanks for all the help.
Not quite. Let me go through it a bit here. It is tough to get at first, and none of us got it right away, but after a few thousand turns and 100s of questions here on the forum ... [:)]
Sorry if you know some of this stuff well already.
1. Each base has a toggle to allocate supply required (marked in red on the base info screen for Utsonomiya). When that is raised to a certain amount, the base tries to bring 3x that amount to the base, as here with 6247 supply required and 17738 supply in the base.
2. A factory will only repair if the base has at least 10,000 supply total in it (this is usually around 4k supply required, but every base differs due to other supply requirements and infrastructure).
Each factory point takes 1000 supply to repair and only can repair one per day for each airframe type at the base. As seen in the second pane, Utsonomiya is building Ki-44 Tojo IIa at 65(5) per month. That means it'll take 5 days and 5k supply to get the factory operational to it's current capacity of 70. That supply will be taken from the base, so it's a good idea to have the allocation for the base slightly higher, and especially if there are other airframe factories that need repair (or shipyards, industry, etc). As it is now it will still make 65 Ki-44 IIa/month.
3. If you want to upgrade the factory to the Tojo IIb you can choose this plane once it's researched and the factory will switch to it without needing to repair (as long as you choose the next airframe in the production path for the type. There are some surprises here so it's best to have a chart showing the various lines handy).
4. If you want another plane not on the same production path, you can choose it and the factory will lose a portion of it's points (about 1/3 of it's total) and all of the points will have to be repaired. You can of course then also add points to the size you want, but the cost will still be 1,000 supply per point to repair.
So now as seen in the last pane, switched to the Ki-61 Ia Tony, it will take 49 days and 49k supply to have the factory operate to produce 49 Ki-61 Ia per month assuming your base always has total supply over 10k during this time (the 10k supply is only required to repair factories, but they will continue to produce airframe without 10k in the base once they are repaired). In the first month while repairing it will make ~15 planes (the average of the production points in a working state over this time. You should get your first Tony within the first week).
In the Home Islands you have to be careful as there are a lot of bases that may be repairing factories at one time. Make sure you don't overload your supply production capability and also don't toggle stockpiling to 'YES' as this will usually mess things up. Bases with bigger airfields and ports will pull and be able to hold more supply, whereas some bases with factories might be too small (fields level 1 with a 6k maximum supply before spoilage) to really make this work, and so have to be built up a little to draw better. Gifu and Maebashi have a lot of factories but no ports and small fields, which means that they often need to be built up a bit to draw well.
I hope this helps!
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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
Thanks a lot obvert for the indication I really needed I'm still learning at this addition. I agree with Winston Churchill's statement but I also remember insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different outcome. Also a little bit of knowledge is dangerous so everything you learn requires that you need to learn more before you can really use it.
I especially needed to know about spoilage since I'm using a lot of points and concerned about running out of them even though I'm at the beginning of the main game. Is there a calculation that I can use to determine where the spoilage point is for any given base?
I also don't quite understand how to identify the upgrade path for an aircraft?
Also wouldn't it be better to switch to a new type of aircraft just before he comes into production thoughts at the end of R&D in order to avoid damage cost?
I especially needed to know about spoilage since I'm using a lot of points and concerned about running out of them even though I'm at the beginning of the main game. Is there a calculation that I can use to determine where the spoilage point is for any given base?
I also don't quite understand how to identify the upgrade path for an aircraft?
Also wouldn't it be better to switch to a new type of aircraft just before he comes into production thoughts at the end of R&D in order to avoid damage cost?
- geofflambert
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RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
One thing that is helpful is from Hanzberger. It has a few minor errors but is very helpful. My printed out copy is dogeared beyond belief. I'm pretty sure witpqs knows links for that "Japanese Aircraft Wire Chart". I believe Hans's email is sshanzberger@aol.com. It's not the only thing, but I don't know what I'd do without it.
A most important thing you have to have in mind when you're discussing airplane production is what engines are involved. Once in a game, Tracker is very helpful. Go to air production and click on the heading "engine" so that your plane production is more understandable in terms of the engines that are required (the aircraft will be displayed in order according to what engine they use). Down below is another whatchamacallit that has some useless info. Click on "Show Engines" and you'll be able to see what needs to be done. Having done all that you can project your engine requirements and plan changes for them and the aircraft that use them. By the way stretch out the display so it covers most of the screen and only stretch the engines part to cover engines that are actually relevant at the point of time concerned.
A most important thing you have to have in mind when you're discussing airplane production is what engines are involved. Once in a game, Tracker is very helpful. Go to air production and click on the heading "engine" so that your plane production is more understandable in terms of the engines that are required (the aircraft will be displayed in order according to what engine they use). Down below is another whatchamacallit that has some useless info. Click on "Show Engines" and you'll be able to see what needs to be done. Having done all that you can project your engine requirements and plan changes for them and the aircraft that use them. By the way stretch out the display so it covers most of the screen and only stretch the engines part to cover engines that are actually relevant at the point of time concerned.
- geofflambert
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RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
By the way, it's not just me, I ignore spoilage. If you don't have enough spare supply around in a factory town to keep the factories operating, spoilage may become relevant. Just don't get into that situation in the first place.
RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
This question is mostly for obvert but any one can clarify what I'm may be misunderstanding.
It doesn't make sense to repair factories if they cost 1000 points per repair point. that's a thousand days before your repairs start paying off on light industry. Heavy industry and refineries you can argue are necessary for ships and planes and fuel but even that is questionable at 1000 to one?
But certainly light industry does not pay off. If you repair one point it takes 1000 days before it contributes anything back. It's better to not repair damages from expansion or anything else and just say the thousand which will last for 1000 days at which point the war will almost be over.
I'm sure there's something I'm missing but I just don't see what?
It doesn't make sense to repair factories if they cost 1000 points per repair point. that's a thousand days before your repairs start paying off on light industry. Heavy industry and refineries you can argue are necessary for ships and planes and fuel but even that is questionable at 1000 to one?
But certainly light industry does not pay off. If you repair one point it takes 1000 days before it contributes anything back. It's better to not repair damages from expansion or anything else and just say the thousand which will last for 1000 days at which point the war will almost be over.
I'm sure there's something I'm missing but I just don't see what?
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RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
ORIGINAL: colt6900
This question is mostly for obvert but any one can clarify what I'm may be misunderstanding.
It doesn't make sense to repair factories if they cost 1000 points per repair point. that's a thousand days before your repairs start paying off on light industry. Heavy industry and refineries you can argue are necessary for ships and planes and fuel but even that is questionable at 1000 to one?
But certainly light industry does not pay off. If you repair one point it takes 1000 days before it contributes anything back. It's better to not repair damages from expansion or anything else and just say the thousand which will last for 1000 days at which point the war will almost be over.
I'm sure there's something I'm missing but I just don't see what?
No your not missing anything, there is no point in repairing something if the wars going to end before you recoup the expenditure. This applies to any Japanese factory but more so to LI. What to repair is part of the choices you need to make as Japan.
RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
ORIGINAL: colt6900
This question is mostly for obvert but any one can clarify what I'm may be misunderstanding.
It doesn't make sense to repair factories if they cost 1000 points per repair point. that's a thousand days before your repairs start paying off on light industry. Heavy industry and refineries you can argue are necessary for ships and planes and fuel but even that is questionable at 1000 to one?
But certainly light industry does not pay off. If you repair one point it takes 1000 days before it contributes anything back. It's better to not repair damages from expansion or anything else and just say the thousand which will last for 1000 days at which point the war will almost be over.
I'm sure there's something I'm missing but I just don't see what?
Actually, this is something that has been a discussion among Japanese players for a long time. You're absolutely right here, it is questionable to increase light industry (LI), although some of us do it in certain specific places. It will take 1,000 days to 'pay off' and make it worth it. On the Home Islands this could be worth it, as you'll have them until the end and as fuel becomes scarce light industry, which uses resources to make supply, could be really useful to keep you going until the bitter end.
My one PBEM game into mid-45 ended with me struggling to supply troops, planes and ships (for many reasons) and the extra light industry I built in some bases on Japan at least helped a bit. The problem is that it's a big investment when you need supply the most, in the early war.
Heavy industry (HI) uses fuel, but makes 2x supply out of it, so it'll 'pay off' earlier if you increase it, but fuel is the finite element in the game that all of Japan's war is built on. You have to be very careful throughout the war to be able to fight at all in 45 and beyond. Many players do increase HI a bit, but often in the SRA where the fuel does not have to be shipped back and thus you can be a bit more efficient in making HI points and supply.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
- MrBlizzard
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RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
Factory expansion/repairs are very expensive 'cause if they were cheaper it would be too easy for Japan to build up a massive an unrealistic industry in a short time; the investment to build industry are huge also in real life, indeed.
This means that
1) Supplies, as stated by Obvert, are the most limiting and most precious resource for Japan
2) you have to protect your industry from allied bombardment 'cause if it is wrecked you'll not be able to repair it
This means that
1) Supplies, as stated by Obvert, are the most limiting and most precious resource for Japan
2) you have to protect your industry from allied bombardment 'cause if it is wrecked you'll not be able to repair it
Blizzard
- geofflambert
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RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
I only build LI where the resources are, such as Sakhalin, Manchukuo and Korea, Java and Saigon. Just expand it a little at a time so it's not too much of a strain. This way you don't have to ship so many resources to the home islands and you don't have to ship the supply back. Pick a location, expand it by 10 pts. wait til it's done (10 days), then pick another spot and repeat. Pay as you go and it'll pay off later. The earlier you start the more it will pay off.
RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
I only build LI where the resources are, such as Sakhalin, Manchukuo and Korea, Java and Saigon. Just expand it a little at a time so it's not too much of a strain. This way you don't have to ship so many resources to the home islands and you don't have to ship the supply back. Pick a location, expand it by 10 pts. wait til it's done (10 days), then pick another spot and repeat. Pay as you go and it'll pay off later. The earlier you start the more it will pay off.
It's a good point bout the shipping. Shipping costs fuel, so any time you can avoid hauling things around it is good for you in the long term. Of course it's always a balance, and while Manchuria is a great place to expand LI, Java is a place I would only expand HI because then you can avoid shipping fuel out and more supply in. But only a little bit as it's still costly, and even though the payoff is 500 days, you may not see a lot of benefit since this is one of the first places the Allies will be able to bomb.
In the long game with Jocke I he took out the DEI stuff as soon as B-29s became available, so anything in range of Darwin or Rangoon are suspect. I even had most of my Chinese industry wiped out by the beginning of 45. Northern China, Manchuria, Korea and the Home Islands seem the best bets for expanding (a conservative amount) of LI.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
- geofflambert
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RE: Aircraft factory conversion delay question
You're right about Java. I'm mixed about expanding either on Hokkaido, it's such a short hop and you can make the route impossible for US subs, three hexes two of which you can maintain minefields on and the other cover intensively with air ASW. And you can use AKLs and make it even more expensive for him.