White elephant
Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets
RE: White elephant
I strongly suspect that this game's release was a case of 'release now or go out of business'. While I'm disappointed that I still can't play the 'Fascist Tide' scenario and probably won't for a long time to come either, I'm happy that we have it to play at all. When I finally get to play the Fascist Tide scenario, all will all be forgiven.
RE: White elephant
Cheers, Neilster
RE: White elephant
ORIGINAL: grab
I think MWIF is the most expensive and biggest white elephant I have ever purchased.
The private WIF Netplay does not work, the sceanrios fascist tide and day of infamy do not have maps and hence don't work and nobody seems to be playing the game. I posted on 24/4 for an opponent, 291 read the post only one replied and on 11/9 I posted again so far 44 views and 0 replies. With no prospect of head to head or pbem play and apparently no AI for the foreseeable was this game really worth buying.
MWiF has provided plenty of frustration for a long time. I have been waiting for this computerised version of World in Flames since the late 90s. It's true that there is still much to be done but steady progress is being made. You've already paid your money so you might as well hang in there for the long haul. I've always taken a very long view on this project.
MWiF is basically a one man labour of love and Steve worked for about a decade without pay on it. He's really looking forward to programming the AI but a bunch of other stuff has to be fixed first. He'll get there.
While things are getting sorted out I concentrate on other games and other hobbies. There are lots to choose from [:)]
Cheers, Neilster
Cheers, Neilster
RE: White elephant
tnx - spelling error is probably not on purpose....ORIGINAL: Neilster
Transaxle.ORIGINAL: AxelNL
Trans axel?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transaxle
Cheers, Neilster
RE: White elephant
ORIGINAL: Zorachus99Oh well, I have a way to proceed. Once the option to voluntarily disorganize units disappears, my game will come to a screeching halt again.ORIGINAL: paulderynck
I think there's a simple workaround for not having the Isolated Re-org option that would be 90% effective.
In the unit menu when you right-click a unit, you can make it disorganized.
I have to ask. Other than being a nice workaround for this issue, why would players want/need to voluntarily disorganize their units?
Bill Macon
Empires in Arms Developer
Strategic Command Developer
Empires in Arms Developer
Strategic Command Developer
RE: White elephant
Correct. Sorry for any confusion.ORIGINAL: AxelNLtnx - spelling error is probably not on purpose....ORIGINAL: NeilsterTransaxle.ORIGINAL: AxelNL
Trans axel?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transaxle
Cheers, Neilster
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- paulderynck
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RE: White elephant
I can't think of any. Maybe it's a debug feature that's been left in... Shhhh!ORIGINAL: pzgndr
ORIGINAL: Zorachus99Oh well, I have a way to proceed. Once the option to voluntarily disorganize units disappears, my game will come to a screeching halt again.ORIGINAL: paulderynck
I think there's a simple workaround for not having the Isolated Re-org option that would be 90% effective.
In the unit menu when you right-click a unit, you can make it disorganized.
I have to ask. Other than being a nice workaround for this issue, why would players want/need to voluntarily disorganize their units?
Paul
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- Posts: 330
- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:05 am
RE: White elephant
So much consumer aggravation could be eased if more debug features were retained. They provide a full toolset of workarounds for every occasion, as well as the opportunity to expand play in new directions. It's baffling the way Steve clings to withholding this simple favor to everyone who paid for his condo remodel.
RE: White elephant
I very seriously doubt that Steve's portion of the game had any impact on the remodel lol.
Also as Steve has said MANY times that the debug tools are not even close to being ready for public use. I would much rather have the actual game continued to be fixed versus trying to get the debug tools upgraded. Besides from what I have seen the beta tester seem to be more than willing to help people in getting their games 'unstuck'.
While not ideal in any case, it is much better than allowing tools released that can cause even more confusion about what are bugs or not.
Also as Steve has said MANY times that the debug tools are not even close to being ready for public use. I would much rather have the actual game continued to be fixed versus trying to get the debug tools upgraded. Besides from what I have seen the beta tester seem to be more than willing to help people in getting their games 'unstuck'.
While not ideal in any case, it is much better than allowing tools released that can cause even more confusion about what are bugs or not.
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- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:05 am
RE: White elephant
ORIGINAL: Numdydar
I very seriously doubt that Steve's portion of the game had any impact on the remodel lol.
Also as Steve has said MANY times that the debug tools are not even close to being ready for public use. I would much rather have the actual game continued to be fixed versus trying to get the debug tools upgraded. Besides from what I have seen the beta tester seem to be more than willing to help people in getting their games 'unstuck'.
While not ideal in any case, it is much better than allowing tools released that can cause even more confusion about what are bugs or not.
You're regular as a clock.
RE: White elephant
ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy
ORIGINAL: Numdydar
I very seriously doubt that Steve's portion of the game had any impact on the remodel lol.
Also as Steve has said MANY times that the debug tools are not even close to being ready for public use. I would much rather have the actual game continued to be fixed versus trying to get the debug tools upgraded. Besides from what I have seen the beta tester seem to be more than willing to help people in getting their games 'unstuck'.
While not ideal in any case, it is much better than allowing tools released that can cause even more confusion about what are bugs or not.
You're regular as a clock.
Cruss, somehow this remark reminded me of a Salvador Dali painting, where clocks are less than regular. Perhaps you can be a clock as well?
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- Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:05 am
RE: White elephant
ORIGINAL: AxelNL
ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy
ORIGINAL: Numdydar
I very seriously doubt that Steve's portion of the game had any impact on the remodel lol.
Also as Steve has said MANY times that the debug tools are not even close to being ready for public use. I would much rather have the actual game continued to be fixed versus trying to get the debug tools upgraded. Besides from what I have seen the beta tester seem to be more than willing to help people in getting their games 'unstuck'.
While not ideal in any case, it is much better than allowing tools released that can cause even more confusion about what are bugs or not.
You're regular as a clock.
Cruss, somehow this remark reminded me of a Salvador Dali painting, where clocks are less than regular. Perhaps you can be a clock as well?
You don't need to veil your opinion in clumsy metaphor. There's no shame in realizing you are equipped only to speak plainly.
RE: White elephant
ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy
So much consumer aggravation could be eased if more debug features were retained. They provide a full toolset of workarounds for every occasion, as well as the opportunity to expand play in new directions. It's baffling the way Steve clings to withholding this simple favor to everyone who paid for his condo remodel.
Hi Crussdaddy glad to see your still interested in your favorite game. I actually like your idea of a temporary debugging system so players could go much deeper into the game.[;)] I am not just quite sure Steve is holding this back for some nefarious reason though, maybe it might upset other functions of the game just not sure[&:]
As for paying for his condo remodel, he has probably made enough from this game to buy the whole building [:D]
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RE: White elephant
ORIGINAL: bo
ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy
So much consumer aggravation could be eased if more debug features were retained. They provide a full toolset of workarounds for every occasion, as well as the opportunity to expand play in new directions. It's baffling the way Steve clings to withholding this simple favor to everyone who paid for his condo remodel.
Hi Crussdaddy glad to see your still interested in your favorite game. I actually like your idea of a temporary debugging system so players could go much deeper into the game.[;)] I am not just quite sure Steve is holding this back for some nefarious reason though, maybe it might upset other functions of the game just not sure[&:]
As for paying for his condo remodel, he has probably made enough from this game to buy the whole building [:D]
I don't think the reason is nefarious, I think it's simply inconsiderate and lazy. It's a very simple thing to say, "Here's your debug mode, please don't send me save files asking about bugs if you are using debug mode, because duuuuh." This would be very considerate and a way of saying, "I realize that it's almost been a year now and the game still has major, foundational problems and originally I didn't see the need for this, but I would like you guys to be able to enjoy this game more and this is a way to do that while I continue on making it work right without tiresome workarounds."
This does not seem reasonable to Numdynuts or to Steve, but it seems reasonable to me and to you, and to many others here who have asked for this and been told by a vocal and shameful minority to sit quietly and await another year, or more, until it's ready, if ever.
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RE: White elephant
It is a valid point. A lot of people would have been very happy with a simple user mode that lets you just move the pretty counters around the occasionally flawed new map, kind of like the way you can manipulate your cardboard counters any way you want. This was ruled out at the start of the project over a decade ago now.
RE: White elephant
Well, as a beta tester, I can confirm that the debug tools (due to the numerous changes made in the code in the last couple of years) are themselves a source of bugs. The time spend to get those debug funtions cleared from bugs so customers can use them, can better be used to clear up bugs in the game itself.
Also, the clearing the bugs in those tools won't bring Netplay around any faster, since those tools can't be used for netplay at all. How do you prevent cheating in a multiplayer game if everybody can use those tools in such a game?
To me, clearing the bugs on those tools is at the bottom of the to do list. Every minute spend on those is a minute which can't be used on improving the game itself...
Also, the clearing the bugs in those tools won't bring Netplay around any faster, since those tools can't be used for netplay at all. How do you prevent cheating in a multiplayer game if everybody can use those tools in such a game?
To me, clearing the bugs on those tools is at the bottom of the to do list. Every minute spend on those is a minute which can't be used on improving the game itself...
Peter
RE: White elephant
ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy
I realize that it's almost been a year now and the game still has major, foundational problems
Heck it's been almost 7(!) years since EIA was released. And it still has issues. And it's another complicated ADG boardgame that players want ported "exactly" to the computer. With no problems. With speedy NetPlay capability. With challenging AI. Uh-huh, no problemo.
What's somewhat humorous about all this is how very much happier many of us were to simply play AH Tactics II for $5 back in the 1970's with none of this nonsense, but now we expect NASA-quality computer code products for our cheap entertainment. Uh-huh. Just an observation.
Carry on...
Bill Macon
Empires in Arms Developer
Strategic Command Developer
Empires in Arms Developer
Strategic Command Developer
RE: White elephant
ORIGINAL: pzgndr
ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy
I realize that it's almost been a year now and the game still has major, foundational problems
Heck it's been almost 7(!) years since EIA was released. And it still has issues. And it's another complicated ADG boardgame that players want ported "exactly" to the computer. With no problems. With speedy NetPlay capability. With challenging AI. Uh-huh, no problemo.
What's somewhat humorous about all this is how very much happier many of us were to simply play AH Tactics II for $5 back in the 1970's with none of this nonsense, but now we expect NASA-quality computer code products for our cheap entertainment. Uh-huh. Just an observation.
Carry on...
+1... And carry on we will, as long as it takes to get this one in reasonable good order...
Peter
- paulderynck
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- Location: Canada
RE: White elephant
Never was really impressed with Tactics II - too artificial; and squares for movement?... really? But from the moment I first saw AH Battle of the Bulge, I was in the hobby for life!
The funny thing was when the first computer games came out my wargaming friends and I all thought: "Well, that's the death knell for wargames." But I'd say overall, computers have been an aid to the hobby and it's more alive and well than ever. Seems there's actually too many games to do them all justice, better to choose carefully and concentrate on a few.
And in the '60s we used to fantasize about a way to play each other without having to travel across the city and now it's a reality thanks to games like this and Vassal (and Cyberboard and Zun Tsu and their predecessor Aide de Camp). Now we've moved on and spread out over the continent and can still sit down and play a wargame together. It's marvelous.
The funny thing was when the first computer games came out my wargaming friends and I all thought: "Well, that's the death knell for wargames." But I'd say overall, computers have been an aid to the hobby and it's more alive and well than ever. Seems there's actually too many games to do them all justice, better to choose carefully and concentrate on a few.
And in the '60s we used to fantasize about a way to play each other without having to travel across the city and now it's a reality thanks to games like this and Vassal (and Cyberboard and Zun Tsu and their predecessor Aide de Camp). Now we've moved on and spread out over the continent and can still sit down and play a wargame together. It's marvelous.
Paul