News on Panther Games

Command Ops: Battles From The Bulge takes the highly acclaimed Airborne Assault engine back to the West Front for the crucial engagements during the Ardennes Offensive. Test your command skills in the fiery crucible of Airborne Assault’s “pausable continuous time” uber-realistic game engine. It's up to you to develop the strategy, issue the orders, set the pace, and try to win the laurels of victory in the cold, shadowy Ardennes.
Command Ops: Highway to the Reich brings us to the setting of one of the most epic and controversial battles of World War II: Operation Market-Garden, covering every major engagement along Hell’s Highway, from the surprise capture of Joe’s Bridge by the Irish Guards a week before the offensive to the final battles on “The Island” south of Arnhem.

Moderators: Panther Paul, Arjuna

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Perturabo
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RE: News on Panther Games

Post by Perturabo »

ORIGINAL: JiminyJickers

ORIGINAL: **budd**

Only thing that may affect my buying habits with CO is the DRM used, the support has always been there I see no reason why that should change where ever the forum exists.

Yeah, same here. No problem with them changing hands, would prefer they stay. But if the DRM situation changes though, I'm out. But I'm hopeful it won't.
Same here.
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MrsWargamer
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RE: News on Panther Games

Post by MrsWargamer »

Hmm only discovered this detail as an offhand remark in an unrelated comment in another games thread.

I wish Panther Games well. I am a bit concerned as a gamer.
I recall when Tiller went solo, and while his games are as good as they always were, the second he changed the conditions of the DRM his products effectively ceased to exist for me.

I have liked that Slitherine Group has moved to Steam for instance, but, I have zero interest in buying a Slitherine Group game on Steam first. I buy them from Slitherine Group first, and I get the serial and the NO DRM worth comment option and then they can offer me the free Steam key so I can load it via Steam if I feel like using it as a means to comment on it on the service (which is so far the only thing I think you get out of the process of doing it that way).

I simply don't buy computer wargames from anyone other than Slitherine Group. That's not negotiable unless they match the Slitherine Group methodology of serial and nothing else required of me.

If that isn't to be the case, then I suppose I won't have any future with Panther Games products sadly. It's not about price, it is never about price. It's sell it the way I want, or I don't want it at all.
Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
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Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.
Phoenix100
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RE: News on Panther Games

Post by Phoenix100 »

Also, feel like I should pay Dazkaz something for all the amazing AARs he has given us.
AFAIK Daz isn't on the Panther payroll, GBS, but if you PM him with a suggested amount then he might take it!
In CM's case the games work exactly as advertised but for reasons I don't understand myself I just don't find them to be much fun to play.
I have the same prob with CM games, Werewolf. I think partly it's because I get tired of having to accurately order and position every single unit - I can do it for the handful of small scenarios that ship with each release, but the campaigns all involve huge numbers of units and my eyes just glaze over. ie; the absence of the kind of AI that exists only in Command Ops, really. The QB facility would solve this (could make my own small battles) if the QB enemy AI was ok, but it leaves a lot to be desired, I feel. The absence of developed AI vitiates the game right through, in fact, though I know it is all working as designed. So, if you're playing with anything higher than a platoon on anything other than a small map, it's impossible to keep track of where fire is coming from for all your units, impossible to respond intelligently, because there's no effective reporting system - basically, you (the player) have to see the action, but it's impossible to be down at an effective level of detail for that unless you focus on individual units, and then miss what's happening to the others. Which makes the RT option pretty useless, I think. But, again, the AI is so slow and basic that if you use the turn-based option you will find your units doing stupid things in that minute when you haven't got control of them. The game looks good though. And works well, as designed, as you say....
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RE: News on Panther Games

Post by ComradeP »

I recall when Tiller went solo, and while his games are as good as they always were, the second he changed the conditions of the DRM his products effectively ceased to exist for me.

I'm not really sure what you mean. His latest products (at least from the PzC and PB series) still only require a serial key. Though Tiller's games have their own strengths and weaknesses, the DRM is as simple as that for most Matrix games: a serial and that's it.
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wodin
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RE: News on Panther Games

Post by wodin »

One reason HPS split from Tiller was because Scott didn't agree with the DRM.
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RE: News on Panther Games

Post by MrsWargamer »

I might be mistaken, but to my knowledge, it's not quite just a simple serial process for Tillers products these days. I think he does limited installs ie something like 3 times.

Slitherine Group's software can be loaded and loaded and loaded some more. As long as you use the serial, you can load it on any darned computer you wish. Their multi player though allows only one account. No complaints with that.

I have the same beef for Battlefront's limited sum of installs elicense. I have no desire to go begging for more installs from the source.

But until Panther Games makes their announcements as to how things are going to be, it's pointless to discuss it.

It just makes me curious why they are leaving. I'm not expecting to ever know that detail though. Not my business.
Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.
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RE: News on Panther Games

Post by Phoenix100 »

It just makes me curious why they are leaving.
I would guess it's just the usual - simple percentages.
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RE: News on Panther Games

Post by GBS »

With the Panther split from Matrix, will Arjuna be commenting on this forum about his future plans? Haven't been there yet, but does the Panther site have a forum? A lot of good helpful ideas have come out of this forum. I hate to see that go.
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RE: News on Panther Games

Post by kipanderson »

Hi,

I sympathise with those who may have a very particular requirement for multiple installs but as a general rule I have never really understood the why DRM is regarded as problem. As a general rule why should a developer allow more than say three installs.. ?

But each to their own..

All the best,
Kip.
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RE: News on Panther Games

Post by Werewolf13 »

ORIGINAL: kipanderson

Hi,

I sympathise with those who may have a very particular requirement for multiple installs but as a general rule I have never really understood the why DRM is regarded as problem. As a general rule why should a developer allow more than say three installs.. ?

But each to their own..

All the best,
Kip.

I tend to agree with your take. DRM isn't an issue - usually.

But when it is it can really, really be an issue.

In one case I had my HDD was going south only I didn't recognize that. Various files kept getting corrupted and I had to reinstall multiple products multiple times. After doing that for a couple of weeks it finally dawned on me what was happening (and to think the US Navy trusted me to repair and operate a nuclear reactor).

DOH! HDD going bad. What the hell - it was in an old PC so I bought a new one. The only thing I couldn't reinstall was Scourge of War Gettysburg (that was back when you could DL up to a year after purchase - I think). Luckily for me when I explained what happened to Matrix support they sent me a link and I recovered that too. (great customer service Matrix has).

Sometimes the world does knock you down and sometimes DRM gets in the way of getting back up.

In the grand scheme of things though DRM is a pretty minor worry/issue.
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kipanderson
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RE: News on Panther Games

Post by kipanderson »

Hi,

“In one case I had my HDD was going south only I didn't recognize that. Various files kept getting corrupted and I had to reinstall multiple products multiple times. After doing that for a couple of weeks it finally dawned on me what was happening (and to think the US Navy trusted me to repair and operate a nuclear reactor).”

That made me laugh.. : ).

Yes... I once had a PC die on me over about six months... Dell gave me a new one after trying to fix it about five times.. one of these rogue, unexplained physical faults.

Lost the lot... death crash..

All the best,
Kip.
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Perturabo
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RE: News on Panther Games

Post by Perturabo »

ORIGINAL: kipanderson

Hi,

I sympathise with those who may have a very particular requirement for multiple installs but as a general rule I have never really understood the why DRM is regarded as problem. As a general rule why should a developer allow more than say three installs.. ?
Developer allow installs? Seriously?
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RE: News on Panther Games

Post by Talon_XBMCX »

Quick email to customer support usually solves the issue with the install limits. At least that has been my experience.
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RE: News on Panther Games

Post by Perturabo »

ORIGINAL: Panman

Quick email to customer support usually solves the issue with the install limits. At least that has been my experience.
I'd rather buy something that I can use without begging the customer support to graciously allow me to install it.
I can install all games I have without calling support activating them online or similar ridiculous additional steps.
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RE: News on Panther Games

Post by Phoenix100 »

similar ridiculous additional steps

well, I'm not sure I see what's wrong with any sort of DRM, myself. I don't think it's ridiculous that the people who create games (or any other content - books, films, music) need to earn a living and survive, and the various types of DRM are nothing more than attempts to foil an absolutely atrocious level of freeloading, backed up by an attitude which is all too prevalent, and which I don't understand at all. To me the freeloading is just self-defeating theft. If people don't get paid then the games don't get made. I'm thinking mainly of devs, but publishers need a cut too, of course. It's nice they give you an extra code when you've already used three, or whatever. You don't freeload or steal, Perturabo, but the DRM exists because others don't see fit to pay people for products they need to sell to live. Some societies (Sweden, for example - I have many Swedish friends and they don't seem to think there is ANYTHING wrong with downloading movies for free through various illegal means, in fact, they think you're stupid if you want to pay) seem to be particularly blind as to the cause and effect here.
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