Was Shokaku class the best CV class in Dec 41?

[Jorge_Stanbury]

I am reading "Kaigun", and the authors made the claim that I quote :

"in 1941, the two Shokakus - the culmination of prewar Japanese carrier design- were superior to any carrier in the world then in commision"
page 323, chapter Carrier Design and Construction for those that own that excellent book.

The Shokaku class was a superb design, probably the best Japan built, but better than anything in comission in 1941 means, of course, to be superior to the Yorktown class, which in my very amateurish opinion, look better on paper (better fire control, more planes, radar, just to mention some easy to spot capabilities).

Question is, was Shokaku superior? if so why?

Thanks in advance

[IdahoNYer]

I'd agree Shokaku class was the best Japanese CV class in '41, but I'd go with the Yorktowns:
+ Larger Air group
+ Non enclosed Hangers
+ Better overall cruising range
+ Better habitability (less pilot fatigue)
+ Better AA capability
+ Better Damage control capability
+ Radar and better CAP fighter direction capability

[IdahoNYer]

double post...

[mind_messing]

The Shokaku class was designed from the ground up as a carrier, with no tonnage limits.

The Lexington and Yorktown classes were, respectively, conversions and limited by the Washington Naval Treaty.

[geofflambert]

I'm going to have to agree with IdahoNYer but only because he's really from NY. If he was NYIdahoer I'd have to completely disagree with whatever he posted. Zuikaku and Shokaku were pretty remarkable. If they'd had the same sort of damage control as on the US CVs they would've been truly awesome.

[slpatgun]

The Yorktown's "were" designed from the keel up as aircraft carries, this is a fact.......

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: slpatgun

The Yorktown's "were" designed from the keel up as aircraft carries, this is a fact.......

...and it's also a fact that they were designed with the Washington Treaty limit of 135,000 tonnes in mind, with the Wasp thrown in to make up the numbers.

The Japanese had no such concerns regarding Shokaku.

[geofflambert]

From my experience with the game (as opposed to acquired beforehand) the best thing the IJN could have done is produce DDs with some real range. The difference between the ones they had and the US is staggering.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

From my experience with the game (as opposed to acquired beforehand) the best thing the IJN could have done is produce DDs with some real range. The difference between the ones they had and the US is staggering.

I'd have settled from some more light crusiers that weren't of WW1 vintage myself...

[geofflambert]

Well when you order your carrier group to go from point A to point B and they don't make it cause they have to stop and refuel those pathetic DDs and you lose a carrier battle because of it, you may feel differently. Nonetheless I'm confused, do you prefer WW1 vintage?

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Well when you order your carrier group to go from point A to point B and they don't make it cause they have to stop and refuel those pathetic DDs and you lose a carrier battle because of it, you may feel differently. Nonetheless I'm confused, do you prefer WW1 vintage?

Short legs on the DD's is the least of the problems of Japan's surface forces.

Of couse I prefer the WW1 vintage! Why would you ever want 15cm guns on a light crusier when you can have 14cm guns instead?

Plus, having guns enclosed in turrets is a sign of weakness. Real navies make sure that the gunners are exposed to the elements: it improves their aim!

[geofflambert]

I fully understand. Forgive my uppityness. [8|]

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing



Plus, having guns enclosed in turrets is a sign of weakness. Real navies make sure that the gunners are exposed to the elements: it improves their aim!

What does haggis do to their aim?

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: mind_messing



Plus, having guns enclosed in turrets is a sign of weakness. Real navies make sure that the gunners are exposed to the elements: it improves their aim!

What does haggis do to their aim?

[8|]

[geofflambert]

I don't know if everyone is aware of this, but on at least one occasion someone attempted to import some haggis into the US and the USDA stamped it "Not Fit For Human Consumption" and put it back on the plane. [:D]

[Coach Zuck]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Well when you order your carrier group to go from point A to point B and they don't make it cause they have to stop and refuel those pathetic DDs and you lose a carrier battle because of it, you may feel differently. Nonetheless I'm confused, do you prefer WW1 vintage?

Been there done that!
It's extremely disheartening & demoralizing!

[warspite1]

To get back on topic, this does seem a surprising comment, but as it is from a quality tome such as Kaigun, I guess it needs to be taken seriously.

Like the OP I would be really interested to hear the views of some of the experts on this forum; and specifically how they view Yorktown vs Shokaku.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

To get back on topic, this does seem a surprising comment, but as it is from a quality tome such as Kaigun, I guess it needs to be taken seriously.

Like the OP I would be really interested to hear the views of some of the experts on this forum; and specifically how they view Yorktown vs Shokaku.

+1

[crsutton]

Well, they were certainly the best of the lot. Better than the American ships? I doubt it. American technology was just starting to race ahead at this point and never looked back. I suppose the date is a factor. The two Shokakus were commissioned later than the Enterprise and Yorktown and very early in the war were probably on par with them. By 1943, with upgrades, I don't think they were anything close to the surviving Enterprise. And by 1944? Well...

[Cribtop]

I think the USN ships were better.

BUT, the IJN carrier air doctrine was superior in 1941 and the Shokakus were the best the IJN had.

Thus, I'd say that they were the best CVs in the world in 1941 because of doctrine plus weapon system.

Strictly on the capabilities of the weapon system, the Yorktowns look better.

Make sense?