WP arty?

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Panta_slith
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WP arty?

Post by Panta_slith »

I don't know if that is intentional, but WP arty doesn't seem too effective now. Independently of how many times I pound a unit (v.g. Bradleys hodling in cover terrain), I don't see anything dramatic (kills) happening. Also keeping arty units in On Call or with Direct Support orders is useless and Counter battery fire is still to be seen. Other than that, so far the 2.05 patch runs very well.
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CapnDarwin
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RE: WP arty?

Post by CapnDarwin »

Sadly direct support and counter battery have broken deep in the code. We will fix it when we overhaul arty for 2.1. Arty, HE is always effective to some effect. There is always a readiness hit and kills do happen. Soviets have the problem of dropping X rounds in the 500m box versus 2 to 4 target units. The delta footprint is the killer. Add some decent cover and it is hard to knock them out. You get the flipside when NATO shoots into a 10 to 20+ group in the same box.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

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RE: WP arty?

Post by Panta_slith »

Direct hits are difficult to obtain with arty, but please correct me if I am wrong. If a heavy caliber shell lands beside your tank (how far, that I wonder) the tank might end up relatively unscathed, but the crew would suffer casualties due to the shock nevertheless. And He might not kill the tank, but cause a lot of damage (sweep off aerials, damage the laser rangefinder, so no more ballistic computer, and damaging thermals, leaving you blind in smoke) So doctrine says that once they spot you, you have to switch positions on short notice. All that would degrade the unit's performance a lot. Otherwise how will you assault strong positions, if you don't have ICM? [&:]
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RE: WP arty?

Post by CapnDarwin »

What you are saying about near misses and shock from impacts is the readiness hit that happens even if NO kill is scored. If there are losses, there are additional hits to both readiness and morale.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

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RE: WP arty?

Post by CapnDarwin »

Also, if you have some ideas or thoughts on arty in the game, open a thread in the Game Requests and Ideas sub forum. We are generally open to good ideas. [;)]
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

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RE: WP arty?

Post by IronMikeGolf »

I will do up a test scenario for an attack with and without a prep. The main benefit of a prep against armored unitsis NOT the number of kills by artillery. It is the degradation of the unit receiving the prep. You see this in game as two effects: rate of fire and effectiveness of fire. Occasionally, indirect fire will force a defender out of his Hold position.

And by arty prep, I am talking 6+ Neutralization or 12+ Suppression concentrations. Because there is no "Prep" mission (i.e. continuous fire for 15-30 minutes), you do need to either use more tubes or more command cycles.
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RE: WP arty?

Post by Panta_slith »

Actually the arty interface, if it were working at its full, would be enough for the scale of the game. Jeff idea about preparatory fire is very good. I know several games were the interface is complex, almost for arty men, and it just makes things more realistic, yes, but far more complicated.
But one thing that it might be implemented is the permanent loss of readiness and effectiveness of the unit submitted to heavy bombardment to reflect the damage/casualties suffered in the pounding. You can repair that damage, but later. That would make the chaps sitting in a comfortable entrenchment to think twice about remaining in place! [8D]
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RE: WP arty?

Post by Panta_slith »

I have noticed that arty units don't scoot any more after firing, which it isn't a big problem since the counter battery routines don't work anyway.
So, there is no On Call, Direct Support, Fire & Scoot and I also noticed that artillery is less effective for both sides. Why not to eliminate them for once and avoid all those problems? [;)]
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RE: WP arty?

Post by CapnDarwin »

On call works if you have the FSCC on. Direct support and CB fire as stated above broke some time ago and will be fixed in the 2.1 arty overhaul. arty should still be scooting after it fires 2 or so missions. If not, we may have a new bug. It was fine for 2.04. Effectiveness pre 2.04 was a bug in the code giving HE shots ICM levels of hit and kill accuracy. Those bugs are fixed now and the arty code was tweaked to place a higher emphasis on shell size for kill generation then in earlier versions. We will keep an eye on it as we go and if we need some adjustments they'll happen. [8D]
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

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RE: WP arty?

Post by Tazak »

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

CB fire as stated above broke some time ago and will be fixed in the 2.1 arty overhaul. arty should still be scooting after it fires 2 or so missions.


What is broken with CB fire, in the black rats campaign I had the CB raised to 20% for the British and it appeared to work fine (other than firing suppressive fire rather than neutering fire, but that's just my view as the AI ignores moral and readiness to a certain point), I think the 4-6% CB rate may be a little on the low side.
In the black rats campaign 2nd battle put the M109 battery on CB and watch, although looking at the user data file I think I forgot to change it back to 20% after I tinkered with the ORBAT post 2.04.
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RE: WP arty?

Post by Lowlaner2012 »

So what exactly is broken then?
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RE: WP arty?

Post by IronMikeGolf »

I believe Direct Support is broken completely. Counter battery is degraded, meaning you need to specify a 3 to 4 times higher level in 2.05 to get the same effect as 2.03 and earlier. So, for unmodified stock scenarios, it is effectively not functioning.
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RE: WP arty?

Post by Lowlaner2012 »

Oh, well that's annoying :(
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RE: WP arty?

Post by CapnDarwin »

More so for us, because it all worked at some point and we have not messed with arty routines much. I may be able to poke my head in some code tonight, now that the website is working right.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

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RE: WP arty?

Post by Lowlaner2012 »

Thanks for getting back to me Capn Darwin and Iron Mike..

Again not a criticism, the game is awesome, I can imagine how frustrating it may be for you guys..

By the way the website is looking good also..
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RE: WP arty?

Post by CapnDarwin »

Thanks. We would like everything to work 100%, but software is not that kind. [:(]
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
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