Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

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scottb613
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Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by scottb613 »

Hi Folks,

Dabbling with my first foray into scenerio creation - I haven't seen it in the list - has Operation El Dorado Canyon been done yet ? If not - would anyone know where I can get the OOB for the naval ships involved ? I know there were three carriers - the America, Saratoga, and the Coral Sea... I'm assuming they were operating as three separate CVBG's all with their own escorts ? If so I'm looking for the list of actual escorts used... I can't seem to find that information... As always - any help appreciated...

Regards,
Scott
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Randomizer
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by Randomizer »

Wow, no starting small for you but break a leg (Good Luck!).

Getting specific CVBG escorts for a real-world operation can be research intensive and time consuming. There are several books on the subject and thousands of web-pages to scroll through. Below is an interesting page but my methodology is to use my 1986 Jane's to determine which ships were in the Atlantic Fleet (which fed the Sixth Fleet for most purposes) and then check individual ship histories to determine if they participated in the operation. Slow and tiresome but reasonably sure.

El Dorado Canyon OOB

Also a must read is this article on how to recreate a highly centralized air defence system (as employed by Libya) written by Command Team Member Mikmyk and found here:

IADS Article 61

Looking forward to the finished project.

-C
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scottb613
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by scottb613 »

Hi C,

Thanks - yeah - LOL - I usually go big or or not at all... When I started with 3D modeling - instead of a house or simple object for a first model - I chose a fully animated working steam locomotive... No promises on this - but - if you're going to spend much time on anything - it might as well be something you're interested in... Thanks for the info - I'll check it out...

Also - it looks like someone has already done some legwork on this - as there is a specific "1986 Libya" import listed in the editor library... That's what I am starting with for Libya...

Regards,
Scott
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Randomizer
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by Randomizer »

I dug out my old Harpoon 1994 Naval Review and an article therein (actually an AAR from a scenario played live at a wargame convention) lists the following:

CV - America, Coral Sea, Saratoga;

CG - Ticonderoga, Yorktown, Biddle, Richmond Kelly Turner (+ one un-named Leahy Class);

DDG - Scott, Mahan (+ two un-named Coontz Class)

DD - Caron (+ one un-named Spruance Class)

FFG - De Wirt and Jack Williams (+ one un-named Perry Class)

FF - Paul, Donald B Beary, Jesse L. Brown, Ainsworth, Capodanno (+ three un-named Knox Class) and Garcia.

With all eyes on the carriers it would seem that the particulars of the escorts may have fallen into the memory hole.

-C

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scottb613
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by scottb613 »

Hi C,

Well - that's far more than I could find on the internet and it seems like there are more than enough ships to make up three complete CVBG's... I'd be comfortable throwing a few names at those that are missing and calling it close enough...

Really appreciate the help - sir - I'll dig deeper tonight - as I have much to learn...

While I did all my active time on fast attacks - I did do three years in the reserves on a Knox...

Regards,
Scott
mikmykWS
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by mikmykWS »

Had this in a folder. It might be it:) Sorry normally I actually note the oob's..

- USS CORAL SEA CVBG.
— USS CORAL SEA (CV).
— USS BIDDLE (CG) .
— USS DE WERT (FFG).
— USS WILLIAMS (FFG).
— USS J.L. BROWN (FF).
— USS CAPADANO (FF).
— CARRIER AIR WING 13.


- USS AMERICA CVBG.
~ USS AMERICA (CV).
— USS TICONDEROGA (CG/AEGIS).
-- USS DALE (CG).
— USS FARRAGOT (DDG).
— USS KING (DDG).
~ USS HALYBURTON (FFG).
— USS ALYWIN (FF).
— USS PHARRIS (FF).
— USS VREELAND (FF).
— USS PETERSON (DD).
— CARRIER AIR WING 1
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Terminus
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by Terminus »

Do you have the air wing compositions?
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Varangian
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by Varangian »

Hi Scott

There is a good detailed document on El Dorado in the downloadable document archive for the SamSim program.
It shows positions of facilities, SAMs etc.

You can download it from here

http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Hope this helps
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Gunner98
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by Gunner98 »

A good place for Air wings is here http://www.wings-aviation.ch/

I believe CVW2 was on the America: composition was: http://www.wings-aviation.ch/24-Naval-W ... sis-de.htm

CV-66 USS America
10. March 1986 - 10. September 1986
Mediterranean (Lybien)
VF-102 F-14A AB 100
VF-33 F-14A AB 200
VA-46 A-7E AB 300
VA-72 A-7E AB 400
VA-34 A-6E, KA-6D AB 500
VAW-123 E-2C AB 600
VMAQ-2 Det. Y EA-6B AB 605
HS-11 SH-3H AB 610
VS-32 S-3A AB 700
VQ-2 Det. EA-3B JQ 10


The Coral Sea had CVW 13 on board which was only active from 84 until 91. Its composition is here: http://www.wings-aviation.ch/24-Naval-W ... CVW-13.htm


CV-43 USS Coral Sea
1. Oktober 1985 - 19. May 1986
Mediterranean (Lybia)
VFA-131 F/A-18A AK 100
VFA-132 F/A-18A AK 200
VMFA-314 F/A-18A AK 300
VMFA-323 F/A-18A AK 400
VA-55 A-6E / KA-6D AK 500
VAW-127 E-2C AK 600
VAQ-135 * EA-6B AK 605
HS-17 SH-3D / H AK 610
VQ-2 Det. RA-3B JQ 10
* VAQ-135 was deployed aboard the Coral Sea from 2. January 1986 on.

Sara had CVW-17, http://www.wings-aviation.ch/24-Naval-W ... sis-de.htm

CV-60 USS Saratoga
25. August 1985 - 16. April 1986
Indian Ocean / Mediterranean (Lybia)

VF-74 F-14A AA 100
VF-103 F-14A AA 200
VA-83 A-7E AA 300
VA-81 A-7E AA 400
VA-85 A-6E / KA-6D AA 500
VAW-125 E-2C AA 600
VAQ-137 EA-6B AA 605
HS-3 SH-3D / HAA 610
VS-30 S-3A AA 700
VQ-2 Det. B EA-3B JQ 00



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scottb613
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by scottb613 »

Hi Folks,

LOL - ask and you will receive... It looks like I have much to digest...

You know you're not going to have a good day when - three - carrier battle groups show up on your doorstep...

Thanks so much for all the information and help !!!
[;)]

Regards,
Scott
Dobey455
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by Dobey455 »

Another good site specifically for US Carrier deployments listing the squadrons carried and type flown plus the dates of each deployment:

http://www.gonavy.jp/CVf.html

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Stevechase
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by Stevechase »

There was an old Harpoon 3 scenario that featured a good representation of the oob and of the U.S. ac flight paths. If you can find it that would be a really good source.
btw
I like to imagine sometimes what would have happened if the U.S. went ahead with the original plan to use F117's, maybe you could explore that as well.
Good Luck
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SSN754planker
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by SSN754planker »

USS AMERICA USS TICONDEROGA <CG-~7 AEGIS> USS DALt <CG-19) t USS FARRAGUT <DDG-37> USS KING <DDG-~1) USS HALYBURTON <FFG-~0) USS ALYWIN <FF-1081> USS PHARRIS <FF-109~) USS VREELAND <FF-1068)

AllAIN DOCUMENT Ill PROJECTED CVBG COKPOSITION USS CORAL SEA USS YORKTOWN <CG-~8 AEGIS> USS RICHftONO K TURNER (CG-20) USS SCOTT <DDG-995) USS CARON <DD-970) USS DE WERT <FFG-~5) USS DONALD 8 BEARY <FF-1085> USS PAUL <FF-1080> USS AINSWORTH <FF-1090) USS GARCIA <FF-10~0> I i I

USS SARATOGA USS BIDDLE <CG-3~) USS JACK WILLIAMS <FFG-24> USS CAPODANNO <FF-1093) USS JESSE L BROWN <FF-1089)


I pulled this off a pdf about Operation ElDorado Canyon and Attain Document I, II, and III
MY BOOK LIST
ST1/SS SSN 754
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scottb613
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by scottb613 »

Hi Folks,

Thanks for the wealth of information - this will take a while - I'm working my way through it slowly - learning as I go... Trying to balance scenario creation with leaning the game, improving my Sea Hag setup, and creating some sorely needed "description"/ "photo" updates in the DB3000/CWDB entries...

Question - helicopters - 1986 was right around the phase in of the new Seahawk LAMPS helicopters - right ? What would you think the escorts carried at this time - a mix of Seahawk/Seasprite or would they all be Seasprite... Would the escorts with dual hangars usually have both positions filled ?

Thanks,
Scott
ComDev
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by ComDev »

Hmmm I believe I included the 1986 Libyan SAM network in the INST directory?

C:\Matrix Games\Command Modern Air Naval Operations\ImportExport\Libya\Libya 1986
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scottb613
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by scottb613 »

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Hmmm I believe I included the 1986 Libyan SAM network in the INST directory?

C:\Matrix Games\Command Modern Air Naval Operations\ImportExport\Libya\Libya 1986

LOL - I noticed that in the import selections - which is probably what started me down this path... Thanks for including it.,.

Regards,
Scott
juanchopancho
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by juanchopancho »

Any luck with this one?

I'm trying to find OOB information about the Libyan Air Force in 1986, not finding much online.
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Primarchx
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by Primarchx »

See here for lots of DOD AAR info.

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Gunner98
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RE: Operation El Dorado Canyon ?

Post by Gunner98 »

Some interesting data here: http://csis.org/files/media/csis/pubs/0 ... 5B1%5D.pdf

Fairly modern in relation to what your looking for but there is some historical data on pages 34-36. A bunch of other interesting stuff as well.

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