All we would need is some maps. [8D]ORIGINAL: Tazak
Another area that can be modelled is the Iran-Iraq war which from a scenario design perspective I find interesting for a number of reasons:
How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
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RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
Is other interest war but info is a lot less... of course they can create what ifs, but in 73 you can smash an Irak armored brigade [:D] and well, a middle east title is better to sell than a conflict like Iran-Irak war... if you dont add in the game 1st gulf war [8D]
After the south Europe title i expect see a middle east title is a good change in the serie, from what if to historical, from Europe forests to middle east deserts and with a lot of new nations (Israel, Egypt, Siria, Jordan and a lot of minors as expeditionary forces and well if you see Volcanoman mods for Tiller Middle east title you can add USA and Soviets in what ifs sending airborne units, armored formations...).
After the south Europe title i expect see a middle east title is a good change in the serie, from what if to historical, from Europe forests to middle east deserts and with a lot of new nations (Israel, Egypt, Siria, Jordan and a lot of minors as expeditionary forces and well if you see Volcanoman mods for Tiller Middle east title you can add USA and Soviets in what ifs sending airborne units, armored formations...).
RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
Not yet. It is not quite ready for prime time. Remember, this is not historical in any way. It was something I threw together quickly to demonstrate the flexibility of this system. However, I will release it eventually (sooner than later) so people can have some fun with it and pick it apart for all that is wrong with it [:-]ORIGINAL: kipanderson
Cbelva, hi, is your very fine Israelis v Syrians scenario available for us to play around with?
Kip.
Charles Belva
On Target Simulations LLC
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RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
I think I would try to create some scenarios but I need to be able to save partly through the process. Usually I get a message saying I must complete something else before I can save. Then after I complete that I need to complete something else
Maybe I'm missing something.
Maybe I'm missing something.
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RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
In order to save a scenario in the editor, you need to place units for both sides, make sure all the units are place in the appropriate setup zone, place victory location(s) on the map, write something in the "Scenario Description (if I do not have my text yet I just write a single word like "test"), fill in the mission briefing for both players (if I don't have a specific briefing I will press the button at the top that will create an auto briefing). That should allow you to save the scenario. If you get the message, don't feel bad. I normally get them even knowing all the things that must be completed.
Charles Belva
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RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
Put one unit from each side and a single objective on the map and you can save it. The units must be in setup zones. So one hex setup zones for each side is also required. This is how I work on them in multiple sessions. I just create a blank scenario basically. Put a unit for each side in and an objective. I save that and then I work on what I need to do over several sessions.
Good Hunting.
MR
Good Hunting.
MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.
Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
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RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
Reposted from another thread:
There has to be a minimum amount of info to save the scenario. To save you need:
1. Choose Player 1 nation, Player 2 nation and map.
2. Add 1 setup hex for both sides.
3. Add one VP marker.
4. Add some text for the scenario description.
5. Add one unit per side in setup hexes.
From there you can save. I would suggest making a Template file with those things in it and load that to start with. From there you can change things out. If you change the map you will need to add back in the setup hexes and a VP marker. If you change nations, you will need to add one unit into a setup hex from the new country.
That should save you some time.
Enjoy. [8D]
There has to be a minimum amount of info to save the scenario. To save you need:
1. Choose Player 1 nation, Player 2 nation and map.
2. Add 1 setup hex for both sides.
3. Add one VP marker.
4. Add some text for the scenario description.
5. Add one unit per side in setup hexes.
From there you can save. I would suggest making a Template file with those things in it and load that to start with. From there you can change things out. If you change the map you will need to add back in the setup hexes and a VP marker. If you change nations, you will need to add one unit into a setup hex from the new country.
That should save you some time.
Enjoy. [8D]
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!
Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
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Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
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RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
Here's an engine model question for the devs:
My understanding from profession reading I did in the 90's was that during the Irag-Iran war, most successful engagements with tank main guns occurred at ballistic battle sight range or less (i.e. <1500 m). I have not read about Israeli vs Egyptian or Syrian gunnery skills. As a gunnery trainer for Royal Saudi Land Forces, I found it was a labor of Hercules to train Bradley gunners to hit movers at >1000 m and anything beyond 1200 m with the gun.
Does the training level affect Pk as a function of range?
This also gets me thinking about further NATO/Pact scenario possibilities. Like, instead of opening day(s) of the war, we have a battered REFORGER unit facing a Soviet Cat B or C formation, which would have older equipment and lower training level.
My understanding from profession reading I did in the 90's was that during the Irag-Iran war, most successful engagements with tank main guns occurred at ballistic battle sight range or less (i.e. <1500 m). I have not read about Israeli vs Egyptian or Syrian gunnery skills. As a gunnery trainer for Royal Saudi Land Forces, I found it was a labor of Hercules to train Bradley gunners to hit movers at >1000 m and anything beyond 1200 m with the gun.
Does the training level affect Pk as a function of range?
This also gets me thinking about further NATO/Pact scenario possibilities. Like, instead of opening day(s) of the war, we have a battered REFORGER unit facing a Soviet Cat B or C formation, which would have older equipment and lower training level.
Jeff
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RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
Wow, just wow! I had a flashback from the 80's and my Avalon Hill "Arab-Israeli Wars". Please, oh please make and release a similar one. I also like the NTC scenario's, having spent a rotation or two there. Thanks for the idea and the flashback. Heck, it's what made me interested in Micro-armor and once the Commodore Amiga rolled out, I left board games all together.ORIGINAL: cbelva
Not hard at all. The hardest problem would be the data files. However, on the cheat you can use the British data files and the Soviet data files. It took me a total of eight hours to make this scenario. I had no map tiles or unit icons when I started. I build them all from scratch. I had the scenario running after eight hours of work. I copied the British data files and the Soviet data files into separate folders named "Israeli" and "Syrians" and then renamed the data files to match the countries they were representing.
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RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf
Here's an engine model question for the devs:
My understanding from profession reading I did in the 90's was that during the Irag-Iran war, most successful engagements with tank main guns occurred at ballistic battle sight range or less (i.e. <1500 m). I have not read about Israeli vs Egyptian or Syrian gunnery skills. As a gunnery trainer for Royal Saudi Land Forces, I found it was a labor of Hercules to train Bradley gunners to hit movers at >1000 m and anything beyond 1200 m with the gun.
Does the training level affect Pk as a function of range?
This also gets me thinking about further NATO/Pact scenario possibilities. Like, instead of opening day(s) of the war, we have a battered REFORGER unit facing a Soviet Cat B or C formation, which would have older equipment and lower training level.
It's my understanding that the M242 has an effective range of 3000 meters. Of course, it doesn't matter what the weapon is capable of, only what the gunner is capable of.
In another Bradley related issue, how long would it take to reload the TOW launchers once they were fired?
Good Hunting.
MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.
Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
Here is my revised map for the Valley of Tears
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Charles Belva
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RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
Nice! Personally, I love the boardgame look, but simultaneous resolution this game gives and have no problems with maps in this format.
RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
ORIGINAL: strykerpsg
Wow, just wow! I had a flashback from the 80's and my Avalon Hill "Arab-Israeli Wars". Please, oh please make and release a similar one.
Yeah, that's my thought looking ahead to what this game series can do. Back in the day, I would use the AIW units and the PL mapboards to fight NATO/Warsaw Pact battles. Sometimes I wonder why they didn't just stick with 250m hexes from the start. Then retrofit this Cold War game engine back to Panzer Leader, Panzer Blitz and Arab-Israeli Wars, as well as the GDW Assault!-series scenarios. It will be neat to refight those classic scenarios with this game engine and its C2 orders cycles and such. [8D]
Bill Macon
Empires in Arms Developer
Strategic Command Developer
Empires in Arms Developer
Strategic Command Developer
RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
I really like that map!
Excellent work Charles! Can't wait to try it...
I'm going through FC withdrawal...we have family staying and my home office in now a guest room.
Typing on my Kindle.
Excellent work Charles! Can't wait to try it...
I'm going through FC withdrawal...we have family staying and my home office in now a guest room.
Typing on my Kindle.
Avatar: Me borrowing Albert Ball's Nieuport 17
Counter from Bloody April by Terry Simo (GMT)
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RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
ORIGINAL: pzgndr
Back in the day, I would use the AIW units and the PL mapboards to fight NATO/Warsaw Pact battles.
I still have my copy of AIW, and some scenarios I put on notebook paper to do this as well.
There is no overkill. There is only "open fire" and "reloading."
RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
ORIGINAL: cbelva
I based the above scenario on an old war game of Middle Eastern combat.
PS to Mike AP--I would like to see a map of the NTC. I fought across that patch of land several times.
Would the game be GDWs Sands of War, perhaps? The map looks similar to the map for the Valley of Tears scenario.
I would like to see an NTC map as well. I've been there 6 times, which I thought was a lot, until I meet an Abrams master gunner who had been deployed there 15 times. [X(]
There is no overkill. There is only "open fire" and "reloading."
RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
The 2 screen shots taken at the beginning of this thread was based on the Sands of War game. The scale was not the same and I had to eyeball it and add additional area. However the map that I posted above in Post #31 is based on a screen shot I took of the Valley of Tears area from Google Earth. So it is more accurate. I had to guess at some of the locations but I am fairly confidence that all of the terrain features are fairly accurate.
I've been to the NTC twice. In fact I was with one of the first brigades to go thru the NTC in it infancy. Two was enough for me. You can have your 15 trips
BTW, for those who never been, this is what it feels like to be at the NTC in July
I've been to the NTC twice. In fact I was with one of the first brigades to go thru the NTC in it infancy. Two was enough for me. You can have your 15 trips
BTW, for those who never been, this is what it feels like to be at the NTC in July
Charles Belva
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RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
Cbelva, hi,
Crikey... that map looks superb... !
Very keen to have go at it... but think you will keep us waiting as you are perfectionist.. .
All the best,
Kip.
Crikey... that map looks superb... !
Very keen to have go at it... but think you will keep us waiting as you are perfectionist.. .
All the best,
Kip.
RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
I would love to play a middle east scenario, a campaign would be even better.
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RE: How hard would it be to make a Middle East Mod?
Hi,
Still enthusiastically looking forward to this one... .
But I know there is never enough time for such things.. so will have to wait..
Yum Kippur War interests me more than Desert Strom and such because they were too one-sided for full-blooded wargaming fun. In my prejudiced view .
All the best,
Kip.
Still enthusiastically looking forward to this one... .
But I know there is never enough time for such things.. so will have to wait..
Yum Kippur War interests me more than Desert Strom and such because they were too one-sided for full-blooded wargaming fun. In my prejudiced view .
All the best,
Kip.