Overrun Poland Test

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

ORIGINAL: Orm

Overruns with the 2d10 table require, as a minimum, a +16 modifier (including the Blitz attack modifier) and 7-1 in odds is only +14. Another +1 for armor is not enough. The unit must either be disorganized or you need a stronger stack.

Aren't 2d10 overruns of a flipped (disorganized in MWiF) division just slightly harder than an overrun of a flipped corps, as the the flipped div is a +1 modifier but a flipped corps is +2?

Indeed.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

Did you attempt to overrun the division with 1 unit?

What do you think about the fact it is impossible unless "edit(More than 7 factors are used)"
2 units were involved?

Also another thing I ran into.
The Armor/Mot stack in the north when used together.
The armored unit was allowed to continue movement after overrun. The Mot forced to stop.

Overruns with the 2d10 table require, as a minimum, a +16 modifier (including the Blitz attack modifier) and 7-1 in odds is only +14. Another +1 for armor is not enough. The unit must either be disorganized or you need a stronger stack.

I am using 1D10 so looking at the face values. I expect a 7 factor to be enough.

With the 1D10 a 7 factor would be enough. But this game have the 2D10 option on.

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Overrunning 5 wasn't that hard. Now I need to ponder if it is possible to get all 6.

Edit: Nope. In order to overrun the cavalry you need to cut the sea supply and that is not within the realm of possibility.

Edit 2: If the Cav was out of supply then it would be possible to get all 6. Nice test. [:)]

Orm, I am not sure. Where would that supply come from? No ports to send supply from. Outside of the Polish Corridor there is only Lithuania.

They could receive supply from their major power but only if Denmark is not taken yet and depending of the optionals selected and the tactical fleet situation.

[Orm]

It gets sea supply from UK and you can't block that during the land movement step.

[Joseignacio]

If this is the first impulse of the game yes. If it is the second Denmark could have been taken.

Or in the second the germans could have made a combined.

[Extraneous]

To Me the map is showing the Sep/Oct first impulse (first Axis impulse). Germany cannot DoW Denmark this impulse.

So fly the German NAV over the Baltic sea to cut the supply to the Polish CAV.

Overseas supply paths
Any part of a basic or railway supply path can be traced overseas. You may only trace supply overseas once for each unit attempting to trace supply, regardless of how many secondary supply sources are used between the tracing unit and the primary supply source.

The sea portion of a supply path does not count against the maximum number of hexes permitted in the path. The port hex you trace the overseas supply path into does count against your 4 hex limit. However, it always counts as only 1 hex, regardless of what map it is on or what terrain it contains.

To trace a basic supply path overseas, the unit must be in a coastal hex or trace the path via a port. To trace a railway path overseas, the secondary source must be in a coastal hex or trace the path via a port.

SiF option 11: (limited overseas supply) You can only trace a supply path overseas if each sea area you trace it through contains a friendly convoy, TRS or AMPH.

From the coastal hex or port, you trace the supply path via any number of consecutive sea areas to a friendly controlled port which is a supply source itself or from which you can continue the supply path overland to a supply source.

You cannot trace a supply path into a sea area that contains:
• an enemy CV, SCS or aircraft unit with an air-to-sea factor;
• unless it also contains a surface naval unit, or aircraft unit with an air-to-sea factor, (SiF option 11: (limited overseas supply) convoy, TRS, or AMPH only) controlled by any major power or minor country at war with that
enemy unit.

You can’t trace a supply path between sea areas if one of your SCS couldn’t move between them (see 11.4.4 Naval movement restrictions). For example, Axis units can’t trace supply between the Western Mediterranean and Cape St. Vincent until Gibraltar is Axis controlled.

[Extraneous]

For several better setups for Poland see: AI for MWIF - Poland

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

To Me the map is showing the Sep/Oct first impulse (first Axis impulse). Germany cannot DoW Denmark this impulse.

So fly the German NAV over the Baltic sea to cut the supply to the Polish CAV.

Overseas supply paths
Any part of a basic or railway supply path can be traced overseas. You may only trace supply overseas once for each unit attempting to trace supply, regardless of how many secondary supply sources are used between the tracing unit and the primary supply source.

The sea portion of a supply path does not count against the maximum number of hexes permitted in the path. The port hex you trace the overseas supply path into does count against your 4 hex limit. However, it always counts as only 1 hex, regardless of what map it is on or what terrain it contains.

To trace a basic supply path overseas, the unit must be in a coastal hex or trace the path via a port. To trace a railway path overseas, the secondary source must be in a coastal hex or trace the path via a port.

SiF option 11: (limited overseas supply) You can only trace a supply path overseas if each sea area you trace it through contains a friendly convoy, TRS or AMPH.

From the coastal hex or port, you trace the supply path via any number of consecutive sea areas to a friendly controlled port which is a supply source itself or from which you can continue the supply path overland to a supply source.

You cannot trace a supply path into a sea area that contains:
• an enemy CV, SCS or aircraft unit with an air-to-sea factor;
• unless it also contains a surface naval unit, or aircraft unit with an air-to-sea factor, (SiF option 11: (limited overseas supply) convoy, TRS, or AMPH only) controlled by any major power or minor country at war with that
enemy unit.

You can’t trace a supply path between sea areas if one of your SCS couldn’t move between them (see 11.4.4 Naval movement restrictions). For example, Axis units can’t trace supply between the Western Mediterranean and Cape St. Vincent until Gibraltar is Axis controlled.

True, bro. Although then, in a land, maybe the GE wouldn't have flipped so many units.

[WarHunter]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

ORIGINAL: Orm
Overrunning 5 wasn't that hard. Now I need to ponder if it is possible to get all 6.
Edit: Nope. In order to overrun the cavalry you need to cut the sea supply and that is not within the realm of possibility.
Edit 2: If the Cav was out of supply then it would be possible to get all 6. Nice test. [:)]

Orm, I am not sure. Where would that supply come from? No ports to send supply from. Outside of the Polish Corridor there is only Lithuania.
They could receive supply from their major power but only if Denmark is not taken yet and depending of the optionals selected and the tactical fleet situation.

Jose, you bring up a good point. Poland should not be able to get supply from the CW.
On the 1st impulse of the game only Germany and Poland are at war.

[WarHunter]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous
For several better setups for Poland see: AI for MWIF - Poland

Yes, Poland could have set up better.
The entire reason for the setup was to test the ability of the game to allow the player to overrun units and find problems with it.

Also the contrived setup used set die roll to make sure every single ground strike rolled a 1. [:)]

[WarHunter]

ORIGINAL: Orm
With the 1D10 a 7 factor would be enough. But this game have the 2D10 option on.

Been playing 1D10 since the game was released.
Used the quick setup Global war scenario. 2D10 is one of the active options.
No clue until you posted what CRT the game was using.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

ORIGINAL: Orm
Overrunning 5 wasn't that hard. Now I need to ponder if it is possible to get all 6.
Edit: Nope. In order to overrun the cavalry you need to cut the sea supply and that is not within the realm of possibility.
Edit 2: If the Cav was out of supply then it would be possible to get all 6. Nice test. [:)]

Orm, I am not sure. Where would that supply come from? No ports to send supply from. Outside of the Polish Corridor there is only Lithuania.
They could receive supply from their major power but only if Denmark is not taken yet and depending of the optionals selected and the tactical fleet situation.

Jose, you bring up a good point. Poland should not be able to get supply from the CW.
On the 1st impulse of the game only Germany and Poland are at war.

It is irrelevant that CW is neutral. Poland is a CW minor, hence they cooperate with CW and can get supply from CW.

[Ur_Vile_WEdge]

Why can't someone do a naval air mission and send something into the Baltic to cut the supply route, knock the cav out of supply, and then squish it?

[Orm]

You seem to miss the point. This is meant to be an exercise in performing overruns. In the current land movement step only.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

ORIGINAL: Orm
Overrunning 5 wasn't that hard. Now I need to ponder if it is possible to get all 6.
Edit: Nope. In order to overrun the cavalry you need to cut the sea supply and that is not within the realm of possibility.
Edit 2: If the Cav was out of supply then it would be possible to get all 6. Nice test. [:)]

Orm, I am not sure. Where would that supply come from? No ports to send supply from. Outside of the Polish Corridor there is only Lithuania.
They could receive supply from their major power but only if Denmark is not taken yet and depending of the optionals selected and the tactical fleet situation.

Jose, you bring up a good point. Poland should not be able to get supply from the CW.
On the 1st impulse of the game only Germany and Poland are at war.

It's dealt with in the cooperation rules. Since the Poles are aligned to the CW, Polish units are considered to be identical to CW units where supply is concerned:

RAW:

3. Units from a minor country co-operate with units from its
controlling major power or minor country.

(...)


Apart from control of hexes, reorganisation, reinforcement and
activities limits, units which co-operate act as if they were from the
same country (they may move and fight together, etc.).

[Extraneous]

Poland can draw supply from the CW on the 1939 Sept/Oct first impulse because it is aligned to the CW. Just because the CW is a Neutral major power doesn't hamper supply.
　

2.4 Supply
A primary supply source for a unit is:
• any friendly city in the unit’s unconquered home country; or
• for a Commonwealth unit, any friendly city in another unconquered Commonwealth home country; or
• any friendly city in an unconquered home country of a major power the unit co-operates with (see 18.1 Who can co-operate).

The CW and Poland co-operate.
　

2.4.2 Tracing supply
Overseas supply paths
You can’t trace a supply path between sea areas if one of your SCS couldn’t move between them (see 11.4.4). For example, Axis units can’t trace supply between the Western Mediterranean and Cape St. Vincent until Gibraltar is Axis controlled.

A CW SCS could move between the CW and the Baltic Sea on the 1939 Sept/Oct first impulse.
　

9.1 Neutral major powers
A major power is a ‘neutral major power’ if it is not at war with any other major power. If it is at war with at least 1 major power, it’s called an ‘active major power’.
 
Units controlled by a neutral major power can only enter hexes controlled by that major power, by a minor country aligned with it, or by a minor country it is at war with. They can also go to sea.
 
A neutral major power can’t co-operate with any other major power (see 18. Co-operation) Neutral major powers must always pick either a pass or a combined action (exception Germany in 1939 ~ see 10.1 Action types). Each naval unit a neutral major power moves (rather than each task force) counts as 1 naval move - every 5 convoy points counts as a naval unit (SiF option 9: every 2 convoy points (or any spare point) is a naval unit).

　

18.1 Who can co-operate
3. Units from a minor country co-operate with units from its controlling major power or minor country.

[paulderynck]

deleted

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

ORIGINAL: Orm
Overrunning 5 wasn't that hard. Now I need to ponder if it is possible to get all 6.
Edit: Nope. In order to overrun the cavalry you need to cut the sea supply and that is not within the realm of possibility.
Edit 2: If the Cav was out of supply then it would be possible to get all 6. Nice test. [:)]

Orm, I am not sure. Where would that supply come from? No ports to send supply from. Outside of the Polish Corridor there is only Lithuania.
They could receive supply from their major power but only if Denmark is not taken yet and depending of the optionals selected and the tactical fleet situation.

Jose, you bring up a good point. Poland should not be able to get supply from the CW.
On the 1st impulse of the game only Germany and Poland are at war.

Quite true, too.

I always get lost in the bureaucratic parts of WIF (MWIF). [:)]

Oooops, like some posters mentioned, explicitly this case is an example in RAW:

2.4.2 Tracing supply
To be in supply, a unit must be able to trace a supply path back to a primary supply source.
(...)
Example: Germany has just declared war on Poland. Polish units that can trace a supply path to a friendly controlled city in Poland are in supply (because it is a friendly city in their home country). They are also in supply if they can trace to their controlling major power’s cities (because Poland co-operates with its controlling major power).

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

Why can't someone do a naval air mission and send something into the Baltic to cut the supply route, knock the cav out of supply, and then squish it?

It's totally possible.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

Why can't someone do a naval air mission and send something into the Baltic to cut the supply route, knock the cav out of supply, and then squish it?

It's totally possible.

You can do plenty of things during other steps but that is not the intention for this exercise. The intention for the OP was to test performing overruns during this land movement step.

Instead of arguing about it I suggest that you download the save and do some overruns.