Any information on Australian Army wanted??

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

http://airpower.airforce.gov.au/Publica ... 9X7amOc7Fk

Download the PDF, I havent read it yet.

There's a real gem on this site - a 10 volume history of units of the RAAF in World War II. Spans two pages of:

http://airpower.airforce.gov.au/Publica ... 9mAJMt0zCM

[JeffroK]

I am about an hour from the RAAF Museum at Point Cook, I was going to pop in one day and see what they had on the Works Squadrons.

[Symon]

Something squirrely is happening with the posts in the forum. I supposedly posted yesterday, but I was out of town. This has happened once before. Has anyone else seen this?

[Symon]

Definitely something squirrely going on. The above was written as a reply, but ended up as an edit.

[Symon]

Oh, well ...

Found this little jewel. It’s at the AWM Library. When you go, JeffK, would you please enquire as to how I might get a copy of these, or where I might find a US Interlibrary loan source. It’s not available through the National Archives. Please send a pm, and I’ll give you my contact information. Thanks

BTW there's editions for 1928, 1933, and 1938, as well, for those that are interested.

http://www.awm.gov.au/view/book/34965/

AUTHOR: Australia, Army
TITLE: War Establishments / Australian Military Forces.
PUBLISHER: H.J. Green, Govt. Printer,
SUBJECT: Australia, Army Organization; Australia, Army Statistics;
DOC TYPE: Monograph
YEAR: 1940-
PAGINATION: 6 v ; 23 cm
CITATION: abn93102049
ABSTRACT: V. 1. Units of a cavalry division -- v. 2. Units of a division -- v. 3. Non-divisional units -- v. 4. Line of communication units -- v. 5. Training, district and miscellaneous units -- v. 6. Headquarters and units air and coast defences.

CALL No. 355.310994021 A514W

[JeffroK]

One of the series of books I was hoping to get access to plus hoping to get the wartime editions if they exist.

[Symon]

ORIGINAL: JeffK
One of the series of books I was hoping to get access to plus hoping to get the wartime editions if they exist.

A lot of references to that title say 1940-1949, so perhaps it includes much more than the 1940 WEs. Tony Chadwick has been gleaning WEs from this source up to 1945 establishments, so they have to be there somewhere. Tony is Australian, btw. Contact him at:
tony@warestablishments.net
He loves hearing from intelligent people who share his interest. When he knows what you are doing, he'll likely give you a list of his own [;)] But he's local (sorta) and a right nice fellow.

Ciao. JWE

[Symon]

As promised, here's the CMF/AMF Motor Regiment as set out in 1/4c/2. This is the establishment that most LH Rgts eventually converted to. There's another one for AIF/AMF Motor Regiments for those units that qualified for out-of-country service. That will be next. So without further adoo:

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Symon

Something squirrely is happening with the posts in the forum. I supposedly posted yesterday, but I was out of town. This has happened once before. Has anyone else seen this?

Not that I've noticed. Do you mean just the forum saying your last post was yesterday, or do you see a specific post that you didn't make? Does sound weird either way.

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: Symon

As promised, here's the CMF/AMF Motor Regiment as set out in 1/4c/2. This is the establishment that most LH Rgts eventually converted to. There's another one for AIF/AMF Motor Regiments for those units that qualified for out-of-country service. That will be next. So without further adoo:

Interesting, I wonder how many Motor Regiments actually made it to w/e ?? THis and their locations are more in moy line.

Sadly, I wish the game would allow a choice between going to the IRL Jungle establishments to fight in New Guinea or keeping to a standard establishment if needed to fight in Australia as more & more games show

[Symon]

ORIGINAL: JeffK
Interesting, I wonder how many Motor Regiments actually made it to w/e ?? THis and their locations are more in moy line.

Sadly, I wish the game would allow a choice between going to the IRL Jungle establishments to fight in New Guinea or keeping to a standard establishment if needed to fight in Australia as more & more games show

Me too. Only way I could do it was identify those individual units that went to trop config and those that went std config, and make two separate TO&E flows. More than two actually, because some moved on to Cav (Armd) Recce, Pioneer, and even Landing Craft Bns. Then I still had to force disband several units and have them re-enter a few days later as Tank Bns or Armd Rgts. Woof !!!

Anyway, here's the AIF/AMF Motor WE; 1/4C/4, 12th December 1942. Not much different, except for the Recce Troop in HQ Sqdn, and ATG Troop in each Motor Sqdn. Seems the Motor Recce Troops each lost a Recce Sect that became the ATG Troop, yeah? More transport and such, and a few more scout cars, but altogether not too much different in terms of combat power.

[Symon]

As to how many actually made it to WE, your guess will probably be better than mine, especially after you visit AWM. I've been traipsing through Unit Histories and Diaries at AWM and, although it's mainly for the Infantry, they have a lot of 'weapons status' sheets. As expected, some Bns "held" more weapons than "allocated" (mostly the sexier ones), while other Bns had "shortfalls" in most categories. It's hard figuring out exactly which weapon is which, because the sheets have "Serial" line items and rather than say Hotchkis, Lewis, or Bren, it says 701, 702, and 703. Woof !! Detective work; ugh, barf, puke.

Anyway, it seems most kinda/sorta eventually got there, but depending on how "hot" their station was, or where they were in the defence plan, their percentage of second line "stuff" will vary wildly. The carriers were carriers, but their MGs could be anything. Scout cars went from Local Pattern (quite good, actually; way better than Beaverettes), to M3 Whites, to Ford Dingoes, and were generally fungible with carriers. MGs were a mix of War-I Hotchkis/Lewis guns and Brens. There were three patterns of .303 Vickers MGs, one of which used the War-I cloth belt. The armories did yeoman service with these and got them all slicked up for the disintegrating-link .303 standard, but ... time. Boys .55cal ATRs were in short supply. 2pdr ATGs were almost non-existent. England sent some, but most Brit production was for home defence against the anticipated German invasion, so the colonys got hind-tit until their indigenous industry could catch up.

Which it did, but Australia was basically behind the power-curve in many areas, till around 1943. Yes, they received a flood of US assistance and weapons, but their internal military infrastructure was such that they simply had to rely on the Brit pattern for many of their armament and transport needs. Guess what I'm saying is the CMF/AMF was improvised to a large degree up till 1943. 2nd AIF was substantially rearmed and reequiped in the Middle East, but much of the transport and darn near all the "toys" were left behind when the "men" returned home. Perhaps that's the reason for the six month training hiatus (between arrival and re-deployment); they didn't have jack-all to re-deploy with.

Ohhh ... I just love this Australian stuff. Friend is writing a monograph and I'm helping with research. Maybe I'll get a chit for a lunch at Duntroon out of it [;)]

Ciao. John

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Anyone interested in a Western Command Reconnaissance Battalion TOE??? (Basically for 10 & 25 LH Rgts)

I certainly am! Also love to have some organizational information on the Mobile Works (became Airfield) construction squadrons.

Really appreciate this, THANKS!

http://airpower.airforce.gov.au/Publica ... 9X7amOc7Fk

Download the PDF, I havent read it yet.

Its a small world entry No 1

The new training facility for the ACS from July 43 is within 5 miles of where I live. I knew they ran Staff College courses there but this is new to me. Its also where 79 Squadron worked up before heading North.

[JeffroK]

I finally made my much delayed trip to the AWM, only to find my lists of info required hadnt been actioned[&:]

However they were very helpful and dug the books out, some where unavailable.

Symon, I got to see a few of the W/E books, they are bound collections of the small (A5 paper) War Establishments and alterations to W/E that kept the REMF happy. I guess there would be 50+ alterations before the W/E would be updated. I only saw the AIF Middle East volumes.

My contact doesnt think these would be available outside the AWM, they were distributed as pamphlets, not as books, so you have to find someone else who bound them.

Possible search sites to use are:
www.biblioquest.com.au
www.bookfinder.com
www.booksandcollectibles.com/index
www.trussel.com/f_books1.htm

[Symon]

ORIGINAL: JeffK
Symon, I got to see a few of the W/E books, they are bound collections of the small (A5 paper) War Establishments and alterations to W/E that kept the REMF happy. I guess there would be 50+ alterations before the W/E would be updated. I only saw the AIF Middle East volumes.

My contact doesnt think these would be available outside the AWM, they were distributed as pamphlets, not as books, so you have to find someone else who bound them.

Possible search sites to use are:
www.biblioquest.com.au
www.bookfinder.com
www.booksandcollectibles.com/index
www.trussel.com/f_books1.htm

Thank you very much, Jeff. I suspected as much and will take your recommendations. Somebody once said:

You can't always get what you want;
But if you try sometime;
You will find;
You get what you need.

Thank you again for all your help, both here and privately. You are a good troop Mr Kennady. I appreciate it immensely [8D]