Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - The air war in China- DBB, SLs, PDU OFF

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Lokasenna
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


The real problem now is supply. I've used too much of it (as always) and can't seem to be able to stop the fall. Every day I produce 27,000 supplies and consume between 35 and 37K!!![:o]
China is in red. Even Korea now is in red. Japan has its own problems... pushed too much the R&D system in the first months I fear...hopefully now it will stabilize a bit now that most of the major lines of RnD are completed (A6M and KI-43 lines).

I don't sweat the economy. Like you I push my R&D and factory expansion early, then recoup for the remainder of 1942. I had 1.2 million HI before the end of 1942 and supply was increasing on average 8-12k per day once the first wave of factory expansions were complete. I'll bow out now and let you get back to doing what you do without offering advice of a dubious nature. [:D]

I know my play style with the Japanese economy make people like Mike Solli and Pax Mondo cringe! [:D]


This time I won't try to save HI points as usual. As far as I can tell, when war will enter in its latest stage, aren't the HI points what I'll be missing, but supplies. So i'll keep on producing everything I consider usefull and won't even look at the HI stored.
Let's hope supplies will get up once this first phase is over... I'm now down to 2,8 millions and would like not to waste too much for the rest of the year...

I'm ending up with a 3-3.5K surplus in HI per day in my game. Manageable pilot training costs. If it weren't that HI was such a great supply generator, I'd turn off some production to make my Fuel/Oil stocks last a bit longer... wishing I'd expanded more LI centers in the HI from Day 1, honestly. For every 2 points of LI expanded, I could have turned off a point of HI at some point in late 1942 for the same total supply availability at a given date in 1944.
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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

Talked with Erik. We're re-doing the last turn. It was a bad AI decision to attack the units at Hyderabad, that a RL commander (not even the most stupid one) would have never done! At least not without an air cover.
Cannot but agree with him about that, even if I would have loved to have all those brand new aces[:D]

Well, at least now Erik knows what I do have to defend Hyderabad air space... will try to change the cards for the next turns [:D]
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MrKane
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by MrKane »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Talked with Erik. We're re-doing the last turn. It was a bad AI decision to attack the units at Hyderabad, that a RL commander (not even the most stupid one) would have never done! At least not without an air cover.
Cannot but agree with him about that, even if I would have loved to have all those brand new aces[:D]

Well, at least now Erik knows what I do have to defend Hyderabad air space... will try to change the cards for the next turns [:D]
At this point of war he does not have anything to challenge you there. You should now it :) Hurricanes and P-40 are very good defensive planes, in offensive role they are "fail" aircrafts.
BTW. Do you really like to defend Hyderabad, it seems to bit risky. It can be cutoff very easily and left to be finish later.
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crsutton
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Talked with Erik. We're re-doing the last turn. It was a bad AI decision to attack the units at Hyderabad, that a RL commander (not even the most stupid one) would have never done! At least not without an air cover.
Cannot but agree with him about that, even if I would have loved to have all those brand new aces[:D]

Well, at least now Erik knows what I do have to defend Hyderabad air space... will try to change the cards for the next turns [:D]

This was the decent thing to do. You are talking about a six months for him to replace all of those bombers. The Allied player just cannot attempt mass attacks for this reason in 1942. The risk of disaster looms too large. Better to keep your medium bomber attacks more limited to avoid just this sort of outcome. Now he owes you a big one..[;)]
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

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Lowpe
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by Lowpe »

Well they did redo the turn at Calcutta with the river crossing too. Gentlemen at war!
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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Well they did redo the turn at Calcutta with the river crossing too. Gentlemen at war!

Absolutely true!


So we redid the turn for the 20th of June. No air attacks in India, but in China...

Ground combat at 74,56 (near Liuchow)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 28199 troops, 318 guns, 124 vehicles, Assault Value = 1129

Defending force 7454 troops, 43 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 200

Japanese adjusted assault: 410

Allied adjusted defense: 63

Japanese assault odds: 6 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
598 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 52 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled

Allied ground losses:
2681 casualties reported
Squads: 27 destroyed, 33 disabled
Non Combat: 80 destroyed, 17 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 4 (2 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units retreated 2

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
16th Division
8th Division
2nd Division
14th Army
23rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
2nd Prov Chinese Corps
16th Group Army


We broke the front and we crossed the river! Now the whole front is on the move again...[&o] We just needed a good dice&roll...and the God of re-dos smiled upon us[:D]



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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: MrKane

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Talked with Erik. We're re-doing the last turn. It was a bad AI decision to attack the units at Hyderabad, that a RL commander (not even the most stupid one) would have never done! At least not without an air cover.
Cannot but agree with him about that, even if I would have loved to have all those brand new aces[:D]

Well, at least now Erik knows what I do have to defend Hyderabad air space... will try to change the cards for the next turns [:D]
At this point of war he does not have anything to challenge you there. You should now it :) Hurricanes and P-40 are very good defensive planes, in offensive role they are "fail" aircrafts.
BTW. Do you really like to defend Hyderabad, it seems to bit risky. It can be cutoff very easily and left to be finish later.


Hyderabad is exposed, but i won't abbandon it for nothing. I don't think he has the strenght to really threaten me of encirclement right now, not now that 3 brand new IDs are arriving. He needs to get a clear air superiority to do that and, as you say, right now he doesn't.

However i plan to move out as soon as the situation gets worse
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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

KB 2 is now moving into position between Sebang and Ceylon... just in case he feels lucky and gets a piece of intel[;)]
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MrKane
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by MrKane »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: MrKane

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Talked with Erik. We're re-doing the last turn. It was a bad AI decision to attack the units at Hyderabad, that a RL commander (not even the most stupid one) would have never done! At least not without an air cover.
Cannot but agree with him about that, even if I would have loved to have all those brand new aces[:D]

Well, at least now Erik knows what I do have to defend Hyderabad air space... will try to change the cards for the next turns [:D]
At this point of war he does not have anything to challenge you there. You should now it :) Hurricanes and P-40 are very good defensive planes, in offensive role they are "fail" aircrafts.
BTW. Do you really like to defend Hyderabad, it seems to bit risky. It can be cutoff very easily and left to be finish later.


Hyderabad is exposed, but i won't abbandon it for nothing. I don't think he has the strenght to really threaten me of encirclement right now, not now that 3 brand new IDs are arriving. He needs to get a clear air superiority to do that and, as you say, right now he doesn't.

However i plan to move out as soon as the situation gets worse

I like this plan :). Additionally, congratulation. Until now you did excellent work. I just hope I will do as good as you vs Jocke.
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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: MrKane

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: MrKane



At this point of war he does not have anything to challenge you there. You should now it :) Hurricanes and P-40 are very good defensive planes, in offensive role they are "fail" aircrafts.
BTW. Do you really like to defend Hyderabad, it seems to bit risky. It can be cutoff very easily and left to be finish later.


Hyderabad is exposed, but i won't abbandon it for nothing. I don't think he has the strenght to really threaten me of encirclement right now, not now that 3 brand new IDs are arriving. He needs to get a clear air superiority to do that and, as you say, right now he doesn't.

However i plan to move out as soon as the situation gets worse

I like this plan :). Additionally, congratulation. Until now you did excellent work. I just hope I will do as good as you vs Jocke.

Thanks Tom. Gotta admit that i stole many ideas from your game against me and against NY59Giants! My indian campaign, so far, as been a mix between the two of yours. Having seen how you had to stop at the gate of Bombay, i decided to secure western Oz, stealing part of Olorin's strategy against Micheal...

I'm a thief[:D]
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MrKane
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by MrKane »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: MrKane

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy





Hyderabad is exposed, but i won't abbandon it for nothing. I don't think he has the strenght to really threaten me of encirclement right now, not now that 3 brand new IDs are arriving. He needs to get a clear air superiority to do that and, as you say, right now he doesn't.

However i plan to move out as soon as the situation gets worse

I like this plan :). Additionally, congratulation. Until now you did excellent work. I just hope I will do as good as you vs Jocke.

Thanks Tom. Gotta admit that i stole many ideas from your game against me and against NY59Giants! My indian campaign, so far, as been a mix between the two of yours. Having seen how you had to stop at the gate of Bombay, i decided to secure western Oz, stealing part of Olorin's strategy against Micheal...

I'm a thief[:D]

I am afraid that I am not a better man. I have stolen whole game opening vs Jocke from "Spidery" :)


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MrBlizzard
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by MrBlizzard »

Nooo![:-]
It's not stealing, it's just taking inspiration, re-elaborate and applying to a new context [:D]
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ny59giants
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by ny59giants »

So Nik, I can take you to court for the theft of ideas or lack of royalties from those idea. Know any good lawyers??
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Mike McCreery
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by Mike McCreery »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

So Nik, I can take you to court for the theft of ideas or lack of royalties from those idea. Know any good lawyers??

You would have to prove damages :P
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Lowpe
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: Wargmr
You would have to prove damages :P

Nonsense. You settle out of court...for a little less than what a defense would have cost him.
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leehunt27@bloomberg.net
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by leehunt27@bloomberg.net »

I'm sure he learned his lesson after that LBA attack (and the merciful turn re-do). I've learned from that as well starting a second Allied PBEM game-- those wonderful bombers are vulnerable and you can't turn up their production to make up for your mistakes!
John 21:25
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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

So Nik, I can take you to court for the theft of ideas or lack of royalties from those idea. Know any good lawyers??

You would have to prove damages :P

Damages are "in re ipsa" in this case, cause by the violation of an intellectual property i managed to get un-deserved benefits, so i got utilities that should belong to someone else's sphere of economical influence!

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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

June 23, 1942

A bad day for the IJ air Army

OZ: the turn begins with a naval fight.
I had spotted another convoy south of the map, moving to Cape Town. Sent my ships to intercept.
It wasn't a convoy, but a SCTF!
We tangled with it, sinking an old ducth DD and damaging a light cruiser, but nothing to write home about.

CHINA: the whole chinese front South of Liuchow seems to have collapsed. The chinese are retreating everywhere, abbandoning Nanning and all the exposed positions around Liuchow! Good.
The tanks keep on pushing forward, while our divisions are trying to encircle Changsha and are reducing the enemy's positions south of Chikkiang with the help of the bombers.
Not bad, not bad. Now wanna wait to see if he abbandons Liuchow too or not.

INDIA: here things went bad. I decided to test the enemy's force at Dehli. Sent a crack 45 A6M2 sentai and 84 KI-43 Ic to sweep. My pilots were good. The results were not. Lost 35 planes and 19 pilots, against only 15 enemy planes...OUCH!!!!!!!
To add another bad news, an allied sub sunk a big xAK full of troops near Rangoon....[:o]

Night Time Surface Combat, near Albany at 53,178, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Atago, Shell hits 1
CA Chokai
DD Tanikaze
DD Kasumi
DD Shigure
DD Suzukaze, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Shirayuki
DD Wakatake
DD Asagao
DD Yugao

Allied Ships
CL Achilles, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Woodworth, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Ralph Talbot
DD Shaw, Shell hits 1
DD Tucker
DD Piet Hein, Shell hits 3, and is sunk



Sub attack near Ramree Island at 52,49

Japanese Ships
xAK Seattle Maru, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
E Uji
E Hashidate
PB Tonon Maru
PB Aso Maru #7
PB Tatsumiya Maru
AK Ayatosan Maru
AK Sakito Maru
xAK Siberia Maru
xAK Taikei Maru
xAK Manyo Maru
xAK Ikuta Maru
xAK Daiya Maru
xAK Taifuku Maru
xAK Hankow Maru
xAK Akagisan Maru
xAK Senko Maru
xAK Nissan Maru
xAK Teiyo Maru
xAK Kinai Maru
E Tobui
E Uruyame
E Ishigaki

Allied Ships
SS Porpoise

Japanese ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Morning Air attack on Delhi , at 52,17

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 47 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 45

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 16
Hurricane IIc Trop x 15
Mohawk IV x 16
P-40E Warhawk x 20
F4F-3A Wildcat x 27
F4F-3 Wildcat x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 3 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
28 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 20000 feet

CAP engaged:
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 16 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 18000 and 26000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
VMF-211 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 10 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 18000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
No.5 Sqn RAF with Mohawk IV (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 11 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 18000 and 24000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
No.135 Sqn RAF with Hurricane IIb Trop (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 9 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 18000 and 27000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
No.615 Sqn RAF with Hurricane IIc Trop (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 8 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes
51st FG/26th FS with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 22000 and 23000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
23rd FG/74th FS with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 17000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes


....[:-][:-][:-][:-][:-][:-]
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ny59giants
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by ny59giants »

VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat

What are American CV fighters doing in the middle of India?!?
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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat

What are American CV fighters doing in the middle of India?!?


I didn't notice that!!!! Thanks Micheal! That's a great info!

So there must be at least a carrier in India that have sent its planes to help in the continent...
mmmm....


June 24, 1942

The allies don't lose time and immediately send sweeps from Dehli to my depleted sentais at Lucknow... Hurricanes on LRCAP + P-38s on sweep. Another bad day for the IJAAF.
15 planes lost, against 2 P-38s...[X(]. The Oscars seem to be particularly in difficulties against the allied planes.
Guess this is what the air war looks like in a PDU OFF environement... by mid 1942 Japan has lost its superiority!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Lucknow , at 52,23

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 15 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 36
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 31

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 10
P-38E Lightning x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38E Lightning: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x P-38E Lightning sweeping at 20000 feet

CAP engaged:
3rd Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 18 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 26000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
11th Sentai with Ki-43-Ic Oscar (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 18000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes
24th Sentai with Ki-43-Ic Oscar (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes


More ships spotted south of Tarawa... sending the KB1 there to investigate

Nothing new in China...

In India the enemy's stack is approaching Hyderabad...US AA units spotted on the stack. At least a Costal AA regiment embedded. That's why he's notLRCAPping...

The 36th ID arrived at Madras, along with the 15th Army HQ and some more AAs.
The 41st will be there tomorrow.
Tomorrow the 4th Guards ID will also be unloaded at Calcutta.
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