Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - The air war in China- DBB, SLs, PDU OFF

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Lowpe
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
The only problem is that, with SL, once the first road-block is pushed back, the other hex where the units retreated to becomes overstacked, which eats supplies and lower the effectiveness of the combat units.

Is over stacking, temporarily, that horrible?

It just seems to me that the off road hexes for the most part are pretty worthless to defend. There are some exceptions, but not many.

Chinese units are so fragile on offense,they really don't pose a threat to IJA flanks and supply lines.




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crsutton
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by crsutton »

If it is a small over-stack then the penalty is slight. But if you retreat 40,000 troops into a 45,000 stacking limit hex with 40,000 troops already in it, then yes you will just bleed supply until you can correct it.

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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

June 18, 1942

CHINA: The bait seems to be working really great. Today air bombing clearly showed that Erik is being attracted by that hex, forgetting or not seeing a whole army ready to river cross against just one Chinese corp in a +2 terrain!
Tomorrow we'll make two river crossing. North and SE of Nanning. I expect to encounter light resistance. If everything goes as foreseen, Liuchow could be in real danger! He will have to decide if to abandon the southern positions along the RR and to move north or risking of being bypassed on the way to Tuyun!
At Changsha he finally sees the threat and started to move some units out defending the only exit route remained to him (NW hex).

INDIA: The big allied army at Shalopur started to move this turn (see map), while 150 fighters move there to cover the advance towards what seems to be Hyderabad.

Indian Ocean: finally we made a good raid. My subs in the last days have spotted a convoy moving from Oz to CT, moving very south to avoid my patrol aicrafts. Sent a SCTF to investigate... we found a couple of good preys

Day Time Surface Combat, near Albany at 47,172, Range 21,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Isuzu
CL Yura
DD Amatsukaze
DD Urakaze
DD Murasame
DD Samidare, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Yamakaze
DD Umikaze

Allied Ships
AM Tanager, Shell hits 21, and is sunk
AM Chevreuil, Shell hits 21, and is sunk
xAK El Madina, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Tweedbank, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AMC Cap des Palmes, Shell hits 25, and is sunk
xAP Hong Kheng, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAP Bontekoe, Shell hits 30, and is sunk
xAP Van Overstraten, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Royal T. Frank, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
979 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 140 destroyed, 51 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 260 (217 destroyed, 43 disabled)
Vehicles lost 128 (78 destroyed, 50 disabled)

xAP Van Overstraten , xAP Bontekoe , xAK Royal T. Frank ,
xAK El Madina screened from combat
Range closes to 6,000 yards
xAP Van Overstraten , xAP Bontekoe , xAK Royal T. Frank ,
xAK El Madina screened from combat
- escorted by AM Chevreuil , AM Tanager
Combat ends with last Allied ship sunk...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Albany at 54,172, Range 17,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Isuzu
CL Yura
DD Amatsukaze
DD Urakaze
DD Murasame
DD Samidare, on fire
DD Yamakaze
DD Umikaze

Allied Ships
AM Finch, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
xAP Wahine, Shell hits 41, and is sunk
xAK Bhima, Shell hits 52, and is sunk
xAP Van Neck, Shell hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
1399 casualties reported
Squads: 34 destroyed, 37 disabled
Non Combat: 17 destroyed, 107 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 14 (11 destroyed, 3 disabled)


Possibly a tank regiment and a combat regiment?...doesn't really matter: more 2000 allied dogs are now food for fishes[:D]

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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

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Cribtop
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by Cribtop »

Oof, those convoy hits must have hurt. Units en route to India, perhaps?
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ny59giants
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by ny59giants »

Madras - I would leave a significant garrison force there just to deny and delay Indian reinforcements for 30 days. Many LCUs, including full divisions, arrive here and it still being in Japan's hands will delay them and force him to move them down from Karachi vs having them close to the front lines.
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leehunt27@bloomberg.net
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by leehunt27@bloomberg.net »

awesome raid on the Allied convoy at Albany. that feels so good when you line up one of those combats :)

That rocky area past Changsha is where I got stalled in my game as the Japanese. Good luck bursting through, hopefully you can puncture that line and cut off all his off-road hex Corps
John 21:25
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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

Hi all,

sorry for the delay but I've been away the whole weekend!

June 19, 1942

CHINA: the two planned rivercrossings went so-so. The tanks north of Nanning did great, pushing away with ease the 52th Chinese Corp in a +3 terrain! inflicting more than 100 squads destroyed and more 50 disabled (if the combat report is to be believed).
The one SW of Liuchow went bad. We missed the 2-1 for 50 points and only 2 IDs crossed, while the third remained stuck at 45/46 miles... don't know what happened[&:]...fatigue maybe. However, the two IDs crossed and found a provincial Chinese corp and an HQ... achieved a 1-1 but more than 250 squads are disabled and 5 are destroyed...against a pitfull number of Chinese disabled[:(]
Tomorrow we'll try again, but the distruption is very high among my two assault units... bad luck cause with a better dice&roll we could be steamrolling in southern china now..

INDIA: The allies attack Bellary with 300+ bombers and 250 fighters... no air cover...the 21st ID in strat mode is badly trashed[:o]. Hope to be able to railroad it back to safety tomorrow...
Only 3 Allied units actually came out of Shalopur... what is he doing? a bait for my bombers? Maybe...a trap CAP... we'll see

SOPAC/CENTPAC: fast transport TFs spotted moving towards Ndeni and Ocean Island (APDs and DDs spotted)... we're moving to investigate



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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Madras - I would leave a significant garrison force there just to deny and delay Indian reinforcements for 30 days. Many LCUs, including full divisions, arrive here and it still being in Japan's hands will delay them and force him to move them down from Karachi vs having them close to the front lines.


Sure! the plan is to leave there at least 2 IDs with plenty of forts (6 planned). With the help of the IJ navy we should be able to hold for a while there...

I remember how many units in my game against Mr.Kane were retarded due to Madras occupation...[;)]
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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: leehunt27@bloomberg.net

awesome raid on the Allied convoy at Albany. that feels so good when you line up one of those combats :)

That rocky area past Changsha is where I got stalled in my game as the Japanese. Good luck bursting through, hopefully you can puncture that line and cut off all his off-road hex Corps


I got problems too against QBall there, but eventually I was able to breakthrough. I think with enough heavy artillery and keeping Chikkiang suppressed, it can be done... given enough time and perseverance obviously!
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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

Just realized the result of the bad river crossing SW of Liuchow may be due to the lack of embedded support my divisions had.
Actually this was a misake of mine, due to a previous mistake made after the conquest of Bataan.
My divisions did cross without 90% of their motorized support and with half of their embedded artillery pieces. They were left at Bataan and not immediately loaded there but instead moved back to Manila and loaded there.
Not to lose too much time, i sent the fractions of my units already loaded with the infantry immediately to China, while the rest of the units were following in other TFs few days late.
Didn't wait for them either when we reached the coasts of China: sent immediately the units up north... the "baggages" would have reached them later...
Now i see the mistake i made: in order to keep the tempus of my attack up,i sent to the front my units not completely equipped and that has possibly costed me the battle for Liuchow.
Lesson learnt: always keep your main units united when facing combat
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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

Sending now some support units (Eng, AA and base forces) to the Kuriles.
An Air HQ is now present in Hokkaido. Keeping a decent reserve of air forces here
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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

The first big sentai (42 planes) of Tojo KI-44 IIa is now operative at Madras[8D].
In 4 days the second Sentai (42 a/c) of KI-43 IIa will also be operative in India (already another one is present).
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SqzMyLemon
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by SqzMyLemon »

I wouldn't sweat Liuchow Nic. It's one of those bases that is impossible for the Chinese to hold long term.

As you mention, sucks to have the disablements, but nothing you won't recover from relatively quickly. A day or two of bombings and the base won't hold after your next attack. You've only lost a few days, and on the bright side, your divisions will be that much stronger when you recombine your components. [8D]

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

Thanks Joseph! You are right, I need to be more patient and look at the bright side

June 20, 1942

This was a good day in India and another disappointing day in China.

INDIA: Luck helps me. Erik forgot to reset his bombers. Probably left on "ground troops", the bombers find a Bellary covered by storms and decide to go after my units at Hyderabad. It is a massacre. No escort. No sweep. Just my CAP.
I had 100 A6M2s, 12 Tojos, 36 Nicks and 42 Oscars there. Results are horrible for the allies: 90 bombers shot down (B26s, B25s and Wellingtons) for no gain at all. Basically the US tactical bomber command in India has been annihilated in a single day[X(]
At the same time more units are getting out of Sholapur. I'll test them now: 90 crack zeros are ordered to sweep tomorrow. Wanna see if this is a CAP trap or not. If not, i'll start bombing them as they advance south.
However the victory of today will surely put a dent in the allied ability to threaten my positions in India. Without 90 bombers (which are not easily replaceable in mid 1942) the pools must be hurting badly.
I'm not ready to send reinforcements to Assam. Wanna get ready when he decides to switch side of the attack from west to east.

CHINA: another disappointing day south of Liuchow. The 8th ID crossed but didn't trigger the mandatory shock attack, despite being way over 1/3 of the AV already present behind the river... go figure[&:]. So the disabled two IDs attacked alone and got another 1-1... and now Erik is sending his reinforcements fast...should be there within 2 days...so I have just tomorrow to do something good there... if things won't go better tomorrow i'll have to reconsider the whole plan[:o]

SOPAC: TFs spotted North of Lungaville...mmmm....

CENTPAC: APDs intercepted by subs (no hits) coming back from Araroe...mmm.... need to reinforce this sector...the Marshalls need to be secured...

OZ: deadly quiet...


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SqzMyLemon
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by SqzMyLemon »

I think you have your river crossing info backwards Nic. I should have caught the fact your late division was arriving this turn and you were going to launch another assault.

Since your first two divisions totalled more than 1/3 of the defenders AV any follow up troops would NOT trigger a shock attack.

All is not lost. I'd welcome more Chinese troops moving to Liuchow. This gives you an opportunity to rout even larger numbers once you finally wear down the defence.

I know you feel pressured to move quickly in China, I felt the same in my last PBEM. As you know stacking limits will change things. It's unlikely that you will blitz through the country now due to the amount of time Eric has been allowed to dig in. Be patient, bomb and grind away. I know you have a timetable, but you may need to recognize China is a different fight now at this stage. I think if you apply pressure everywhere, bomb and use maneuver you will eventually push the Chinese to the breaking point. I think you have the right idea, but it's going to take more time than you are allowing right now I think. Just some thoughts, I certainly don't know all the conditions but I do know you will sort it out. [8D]
Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I think you have your river crossing info backwards Nic. I should have caught the fact your late division was arriving this turn and you were going to launch another assault.

Since your first two divisions totalled more than 1/3 of the defenders AV any follow up troops would NOT trigger a shock attack.

All is not lost. I'd welcome more Chinese troops moving to Liuchow. This gives you an opportunity to rout even larger numbers once you finally wear down the defence.

I know you feel pressured to move quickly in China, I felt the same in my last PBEM. As you know stacking limits will change things. It's unlikely that you will blitz through the country now due to the amount of time Eric has been allowed to dig in. Be patient, bomb and grind away. I know you have a timetable, but you may need to recognize China is a different fight now at this stage. I think if you apply pressure everywhere, bomb and use maneuver you will eventually push the Chinese to the breaking point. I think you have the right idea, but it's going to take more time than you are allowing right now I think. Just some thoughts, I certainly don't know all the conditions but I do know you will sort it out. [8D]


Thanks J.!
To be honest I didn't remember that rule. I knew that when you cross with less than 1/3 of the AV of yours already present on the other side of the river, shock attacks aren't triggered (always applied this latter rule at Singapore).
Every day you learn something new!![:D]

Yup, all is not lost.
In a certain way, the victory in the skies of Hyderabad gives me more strategical time to deal with China. Every day gained in India is a day that my troops can use to advance in China.
The real problem now is supply. I've used too much of it (as always) and can't seem to be able to stop the fall. Every day I produce 27,000 supplies and consume between 35 and 37K!!![:o]
China is in red. Even Korea now is in red. Japan has its own problems... pushed too much the R&D system in the first months I fear...hopefully now it will stabilize a bit now that most of the major lines of RnD are completed (A6M and KI-43 lines).
I also brought too much in Western Oz (where now more than 150K supplies are sitting there...

Oh well, live and learn

The bucther's bill of the day says:
65 B26s destroyed
16 Wellingtons
13 B25s

Not bad for the loss of 2 A6M2s for op losses (and not a single pilot KIA or WIA!)
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SqzMyLemon
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by SqzMyLemon »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


The real problem now is supply. I've used too much of it (as always) and can't seem to be able to stop the fall. Every day I produce 27,000 supplies and consume between 35 and 37K!!![:o]
China is in red. Even Korea now is in red. Japan has its own problems... pushed too much the R&D system in the first months I fear...hopefully now it will stabilize a bit now that most of the major lines of RnD are completed (A6M and KI-43 lines).

I don't sweat the economy. Like you I push my R&D and factory expansion early, then recoup for the remainder of 1942. I had 1.2 million HI before the end of 1942 and supply was increasing on average 8-12k per day once the first wave of factory expansions were complete. I'll bow out now and let you get back to doing what you do without offering advice of a dubious nature. [:D]

I know my play style with the Japanese economy make people like Mike Solli and Pax Mondo cringe! [:D]
Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
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GreyJoy
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


The real problem now is supply. I've used too much of it (as always) and can't seem to be able to stop the fall. Every day I produce 27,000 supplies and consume between 35 and 37K!!![:o]
China is in red. Even Korea now is in red. Japan has its own problems... pushed too much the R&D system in the first months I fear...hopefully now it will stabilize a bit now that most of the major lines of RnD are completed (A6M and KI-43 lines).

I don't sweat the economy. Like you I push my R&D and factory expansion early, then recoup for the remainder of 1942. I had 1.2 million HI before the end of 1942 and supply was increasing on average 8-12k per day once the first wave of factory expansions were complete. I'll bow out now and let you get back to doing what you do without offering advice of a dubious nature. [:D]

I know my play style with the Japanese economy make people like Mike Solli and Pax Mondo cringe! [:D]


This time I won't try to save HI points as usual. As far as I can tell, when war will enter in its latest stage, aren't the HI points what I'll be missing, but supplies. So i'll keep on producing everything I consider usefull and won't even look at the HI stored.
Let's hope supplies will get up once this first phase is over... I'm now down to 2,8 millions and would like not to waste too much for the rest of the year...
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SqzMyLemon
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RE: Carriers in the I.O.

Post by SqzMyLemon »

Oh I agree. Erik's game showed that supply, not HI is critical in the end game. I was just trying to say you will recover supply over the rest of 1942 as your factory expansions slow down. It's that initial expenditure that hurts, but it's all the same, whether you do it in early 42 or spread it out over the year, you still pay the same supply costs, it's just a matter of when.
Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
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